{"id":3851,"date":"2013-07-13T01:51:44","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:51:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=3851"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:51:44","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:51:44","slug":"41-matrimandir-talks-vol-13-words-of-the-mother-volume-13","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/13-words-of-the-mother-volume-13\/41-matrimandir-talks-vol-13-words-of-the-mother-volume-13","title":{"rendered":"-41_Matrimandir Talks.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n


\n
\nMatrimandir<\/font><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/span>
\nTalks<\/font>\u00a0<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n


\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/font> <\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n


\n31
\n December 1969<\/span><\/i><\/b><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That was the first idea: there was the
\nCentre and the town was organised around it. Now they are doing the very
\nopposite! They want to build the town and put the Centre in afterwards. <\/span><\/p>\n

And the \u201cthing\u201d is ready to come! I have
\nknown it for a long time, it is there (gesture
\nupward<\/i>), it is waiting. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

A’s idea is an island at the centre, with
\nwater around it, running water, which will provide the whole water supply for
\nthe city; and when it has passed through the city, it will be sent to a
\npump-house, and from there it will go out to irrigate all the surrounding
\ncultivated lands. So this Centre is like a small island and on it is what we
\ncalled at first the \u201cMatrimandir<\/span>\u201d <\/span>―<\/span> which I always see as a very big room,
\nabsolutely bare, receiving a light that comes from above, arranged in such a
\nway that the light from above would be concentrated on one place where there
\nwould be\u2026 whatever we want to put as the centre of the city. At first, we had
\nthought of Sri Aurobindo’s symbol, but we can put whatever we want. Like that,
\nwith a ray of light striking it all the time, which turns, turns, turns\u2026 with
\nthe sun, you understand. If that is properly done, it will be very good. And
\nthen underneath, so that people can sit and meditate, or simply rest, nothing<\/i>, nothing, except something
\ncomfortable underneath so that they can sit without getting tired, probably
\nwith some pillars, which would serve as back-rests at the same time. Something
\nlike that. And that is what I always see. And the room should be high, so that
\nthe sun can enter as a ray, according to the time of day, and strike the centre
\nwhich will be there. If that is done, it will be very good. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 283<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

And then for the rest it is all the same
\nto me, they can do what they want. At first they thought of making a place for
\nme to stay, but I will never go there, so it is not worth the trouble, it is
\ncompletely useless. And to look after this island it was agreed that there
\nwould be a little house for B who would like to be there simply as the
\nguardian. And then A had arranged a whole system of bridges to link it with the
\nother bank. And the other bank would consist entirely of gardens all around.
\nThese gardens\u2026 we thought of twelve gardens <\/span>―<\/span> to divide the distance into twelve, of
\nmaking twelve gardens, each one centred on something, a state of consciousness,
\nand the flowers which represent it. And then, the twelfth garden would be in
\nthe water, around―<\/span>not<\/span>
\naround, but beside <\/span>―<\/span> the \u201cMandir<\/span>\u201d, with the tree, the banyan which
\nis there. That is the centre of the city. And there, the twelve gardens around
\nthe outside would be repeated with the flowers arranged in the same way. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

For the outside of this kind of temple, A
\nhad thought of making a big lotus. But then, this interior, this play of light,
\nI don’t know if it would be possible with a lotus shape?<\/span><\/p>\n

If A and C could both collaborate.. if
\nthey could both come together, and if one of them could always be here, one of
\nthem, now one, now the other, if one of them could always be here, with a
\nsingle plan they would draw up together <\/span>―<\/span>it would go much faster, a hundred times
\nfaster. <\/span><\/p>\n

This idea of the ray of sun\u2026 when I look,
\nat once that is what I see. And a ray of sun which could come at all times <\/span>―<\/span>it would be arranged in such a way that it
\ncomes all the time (gesture following the
\nmovement of the sun<\/i>). And then, something would be there, a symbol, which
\nwould be both upright so that it can be seen all around, and flat to receive
\nthe light fully. What?… And let it not become a religion, for heaven’s sake! <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 284<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\n
\n <\/font><\/span>(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Who could find the way to realise that?
\nBecause there is no lack of sun here… Of course there are days when there isn’t
\nany, but after all, there are many days when there is <\/span>―<\/span> so that from every side, from any angle,
\nthe ray falls. It should be arranged like that. It’s a question of geometry.
\nYou can speak about it to C, because if he had an idea.. <\/span><\/p>\n

That is what is needed, something, a
\nsymbol <\/span>―<\/span> we’ll find what is needed, we’ll see <\/span>―<\/span> of course, like an altar, but.. What?
\nWhich receives the light both directly from above and from all sides. <\/span><\/p>\n

And then, no other windows, you
\nunderstand? All the rest in a sort of half-light. And that, like a light\u2026 that
\nwould be good, it could be very good. I would like someone who can feel that. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>And
\nif it were well realised, that would already be very interesting for people. It
\nwould be a concrete realisation of something… They will begin to say that it
\nis a religion of the sun! (Mother laughs<\/i>)
\nOh, you know, I am used to every, every stupidity. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Of course, logically, or rather
\npsychologically, it is a mistake to build all around and the Centre afterwards.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

The idea of A, of
\nhis group, is to have industries which can bring in money for Auroville<\/span>, then\u2026 That is to say that instead of being able
\nto get it done quickly, it will take centuries. <\/span><\/p>\n

I will speak to A about it tomorrow. I
\nmean I will tell him to see C who has some excellent ideas <\/span>―<\/span> well, that he should come to an
\nunderstanding with him. You see, it’s very simple: we’ll try to make A
\nunderstand and to set up a collaboration. <\/span><\/p>\n

For me now, things are no longer
\nexclusive, not at all. I see very well the possibility of using the most
\nopposite tendencies  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 285<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

at the same time.<\/span><\/i>.. It is not exclusive. I do not say: \u201cAh!
\nNo, not that!\u201d No, no, no. All, all together. That is what I want: to be able
\nto create a place where all the opposites can unite. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Unless that can be done\u2026.(gesture of turning round and round )<\/i>it
\ngoes on and on and on.  <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n


\n3 January 1970 <\/span> <\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, I have told C to come, he is waiting outside. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. There is an interesting thing. For a long
\ntime I had been feeling something, then we spoke about it the other day and I
\nsaw it. I spoke of it to A, I told him to see C and I also told him that I had
\nseen what should be done. Of course he did not say No, he said Yes to
\neverything, but I felt that he did not really intend\u2026 But, this is what
\nhappened. I saw <\/span>―<\/span> clearly very, very distinctly…. That is to say it was like that and
\nit is still like that, it is there (gesture
\nindicating an eternal plane<\/i>)\u2026 the interior of this place…. <\/span><\/p>\n

It will be a kind of hall like the inside
\nof a column. No windows. The ventilation will be artificial, with those
\nmachines (gesture indicating an
\nair-conditioner<\/i>) and only a roof. And the sun striking the centre. Or when
\nthere is no sun <\/span>―<\/span> at night and on cloudy days <\/span>―<\/span> an electric spotlight. <\/span><\/p>\n

And the idea is to build right now a sort
\nof example or model to hold about a hundred people. When the town is built and
\nwe have had the experience, we will make it into something big. But then it
\nwill be very big, to hold a thousand to two thousand people. And the second one
\nwill be built around the first: that means, the first one will not go until the
\nsecond one is finished. That is the idea. <\/span><\/p>\n

Only, so as to talk about it to C (and if
\npossible, if I see\u00a0 <\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n


\nPage \u2013 286<\/span><\/font><\/p>\n

\n
<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

that it is possible, to talk about it to
\nA), I wanted to have a plan. I will have it made, not myself, because I can’t
\nany more; I would have been able to do it at one time, but now I don’t see well
\nenough. I will have it done this afternoon, in front of me, a plan, and with
\nthis plan I will be able to explain really well. But to you I simply wanted to
\nsay what I have seen. <\/span><\/p>\n

It will be a tower with twelve facets,
\neach facet represents a month of the year; and up above, the roof of the tower
\nwill be like this (gesture indicating a
\nroof which slopes upwards from the sides to the centre).<\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

And then, inside, there will be twelve
\ncolumns. The walls and then twelve columns. And right at the centre, on the
\nfloor, there is my symbol, and above it four of Sri Aurobindo’s symbols, joined
\nto form a square, and above that.. a globe. If possible, a globe made of
\ntransparent material, and with or without light inside, but the sun should
\nstrike the globe; then according to the month, the time, it will be from here,
\nfrom there, from there (gesture
\nindicating the movement of the sun)<\/i>. You understand? There will always be
\nan opening with a ray. Not a diffused light: a ray which strikes, which should
\nstrike. It will require some technical knowledge to be able to carry it out,
\nand that is why I want to make a design with an engineer. <\/span><\/p>\n

And then, there will be no windows or
\nlights inside. It will always be in a kind of clear half-light, day and night
\nby day with the sun, by night <\/span>―<\/span> with artificial light. And on the floor,
\nnothing, just a floor like this one (in
\nMother’s room)<\/i>. That is to say, first wood (wood or something else), then a
\nsort of rubber foam, thick, very soft, and then a carpet. A carpet everywhere,
\neverywhere except at the centre. And people will be able to sit everywhere. And
\nthe twelve columns are for people who need support for their backs! <\/span><\/p>\n

And then, people will not come for a
\nregular meditation or anything of that kind (but the inner organisation will be
\nmade afterwards): it will be a place for concentration. Not everyone will be
\nable to come; there will be a time in the week or a time <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 287<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

in the day (I don’t know) when visitors
\nwill be allowed to come, but anyway, no mixture. A fixed time or a fixed day
\nfor showing people around, and the rest of time only for those who are\u2026 serious
\n\u2013 serious, sincere, who want to learn to concentrate. <\/span><\/p>\n

So I think that is good. It was there (gesture upward).<\/i> I still see it when I
\nspeak of it <\/span>―<\/span> I see. As I see it, it is very beautiful, it is really very beautiful\u2026 a
\nsort of half-light: one can see, but it is very tranquil. And then, very clear
\nand very bright rays of light (the spotlight, the artificial light, must be
\nrather golden, it must not be <\/span>―<\/span> cold that will depend on the spotlight)
\nonto the symbol. A globe made of a plastic material or\u2026 I don’t know. <\/span><\/p>\n

Crystal?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If it is possible, yes. For the small
\ntemple the globe will not need to be very big: if it were as big as this (about thirty centimetres<\/i>) it would be
\ngood. But for the big temple it will have to be big. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But how will the big temple be built? On top of the small one? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, no, the small one will go. But the big
\none will be built later, and on a vast scale\u2026 the small one will go only after
\nthe big one is built. But of course, for the town to be finished, it will take
\nabout twenty years (for everything to be really in order, in its place). It is
\nlike the gardens: all the gardens which are being made are for now, but in
\ntwenty years all that will have to be on another scale; then, it must be
\nsomething really\u2026 really beautiful. <\/span><\/p>\n

And I wonder what material should be used
\nto make this globe, the big one?… The small one, in crystal perhaps: a globe
\nlike that (thirty centimetres).<\/i> I
\nthink that will be enough. One <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 288<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

must be able to see the globe from every
\ncorner of the room. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It shouldn’t be raised too high above the floor either?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, Sri Aurobindo’s symbol does not need
\nto be big. It should be so big (gesture)<\/i>\u2026
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Twenty-five, thirty centimetres? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

At the most, at the very most. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That means that it will be at about eye-level? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Eye-level, yes, that’s it. <\/span><\/p>\n

And a very<\/i> tranquil atmosphere. And nothing<\/i>, you see <\/span>―<\/span> great columns\u2026 It remains to be seen
\nwhether the style of the columns should be\u2026 whether they will be round, or if
\nthey will also have twelve facets…. And twelve columns. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>And a roof in two sections? \u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, a roof in two sections so as to have
\nthe sun. It must be arranged in such a way that the rain cannot come in. We cannot
\nthink of having to open and close something when it rains, it is not possible.
\nIt must be arranged in such a way that the rain cannot get in. But the sun must
\nenter as rays, not diffused. So the opening must be small. It needs an engineer
\nwho really knows his job. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And when would they start? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I would like to begin at once, as soon as
\nwe have the plans. Only, there are two questions: first the plans (we can get
\nthe workers) and then the money…. I think that it is possible with this idea
\nof making a sort of small model (of course \u201csmall\u201d is <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 289<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

a manner of speaking, because to be able
\nto hold a hundred people easily it still needs to be quite big), a small model
\nto begin with, and then while making the small model they will learn, and the big
\none will be made only when the town is finished \u2013 not right now. <\/span><\/p>\n

I spoke about it to A, who told me the
\nnext day: \u201cYes, but it will take time to prepare.\u201d I didn’t say anything about
\nall that I’ve just told you, I only spoke of doing something. And afterwards I
\nhad the vision of this room <\/span>―<\/span> so I no longer need anyone to see what it
\nshould be: I know. And it requires an engineer rather than an architect,
\nbecause an architect\u2026 it must be as simple as possible. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I told C what you had seen, this great empty room; it moved him very
\nmuch. This great empty room was just what he saw. He understands quite well.
\nWell, empty – that means simply a form. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But a form\u2026. Like a tower, but\u2026 (that’s
\nwhy I wanted to have a sketch, to show it) twelve regular facets, and then
\nthere should be a wall, not an upright wall but something like this (slightly inclined gesture)<\/i>. I don’t
\nknow if it is possible. And inside, twelve columns. And then an arrangement
\nmust be found to catch the sun. Twelve facets in such a way that at any time of
\nthe year it can come. It needs someone who knows the job well.<\/span><\/p>\n

The outside\u2026 I did not see the outside, I
\ndid not see it at all. I saw only the inside. <\/span><\/p>\n

I wanted to explain to C when I had the
\npapers. It would be easier, but since you have called him\u2026 <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

D goes and brings C to the room. Mother
\ntells him: <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

After we decided to build this temple, I
\nsaw it, I saw it from the inside. I have just tried to describe it to E. But in
\na few days <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 290<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

I will have some plans and drawings, so I
\nwill be able to explain more clearly. Because I don’t know at all how it is
\noutside, but inside I know.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: The outside grows from the inside. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is a kind of tower with twelve regular
\nfacets, which represent the twelve months of the year, and it is absolutely
\nempty… And it must be able to hold from a hundred to two hundred people. And
\nthen, to support the roof there will be twelve columns inside (not outside),
\nand right at the centre, well, the object of concentration…. And with the
\ncollaboration of the sun, all the year round the sun should enter as rays: no
\ndiffusion, an arrangement must be made so that it can enter as rays. Then
\naccording to the time of day and the month of the year, the ray will turn
\n(there will be an arrangement up above) and the ray will be directed onto the
\ncentre. At the centre there will be the symbol of Sri Aurobindo, supporting a
\nglobe. A globe which we shall try to make from something transparent like
\ncrystal or\u2026 A big globe. And then, people will be allowed in to concentrate <\/span>―<\/span>\u00a0 <\/span>(Mother laughs<\/i>) to learn to concentrate!
\nNo fixed meditations, none of all that, but they must stay there in silence, in
\nsilence and concentration. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: It is very beautiful.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But the place is absolutely\u2026 as simple as
\npossible. And the floor in such a way that people are comfortable, so that they
\ndon’t have to think that it hurts them here or it hurts them there! <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: It is very beautiful. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And in the middle, on the floor, my
\nsymbol. At the centre of my symbol we will put, in four parts, like a square,
\nfour symbols of Sri Aurobindo, upright, supporting a transparent globe.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 291<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

That has been seen. <\/span><\/p>\n

So I am going to have some small plans
\nprepared by an engineer, simple ones, to show, and then I will show you when it
\nis ready. So. And then we will see. The walls will probably have to be of
\nconcrete. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: The whole structure can be in reinforced concrete.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The roof should probably be sloping, and
\nthen at the centre there will have to be a special arrangement for the sun. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You said that the walls would be slightly sloping.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Either the walls or the roof should be
\nsloping <\/span>―<\/span> whichever is the easiest to do. The walls could be made straight and
\nthe roof sloping. And the upper part of the roof resting on the twelve columns,
\nand up above, the arrangement for the sun. <\/span><\/p>\n

And inside, nothing; nothing but the
\ncolumns. The columns, I don’t know, we will have to see whether they should be
\nmade with facets (like the roof, with twelve facets) or else simply round. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: Round. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Or simply square <\/span>―<\/span> it remains to be seen.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then, on the floor, we will put
\nsomething thick and soft. Here \u2013 you are comfortable as you are sitting? Yes?
\nFirst there is wood, and then this kind of rubber, and on top of it a woollen
\ncarpet.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

With your symbol? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Not the carpet. For the symbol, I had
\nthought it would be better to make it out of something durable. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 292<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

C: It should be in stone. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The symbol\u2026 everything will be around it,
\nof course. The symbol will not cover it all, it will be only in the middle of
\nthe space <\/span>―<\/span> (Mother laughs<\/i>) they mustn’t
\nsit on the symbol! <\/span>―<\/span> that, in the middle. The proportion of the symbol to the whole will
\nhave to be considered very carefully in relation to the height.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: And the room quite large? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh yes, it has to be\u2026 it should be like a
\nsort of half-light with these rays of sunlight, so that the ray can be seen<\/i>. A ray of sunlight. Then according
\nto the time of day, the sun will turn (with the time of day and the month of
\nthe year). And then at night, as soon as the sun disappears, spotlights are lit
\nwhich will have the same effect and the same colour. And day and night the
\nlight remains there. But no windows or lamps or anything like that \u2013 nothing.
\nVentilation with air-conditioners (they are built into the walls, it is very
\neasy). And silence. Inside no one speaks! (Mother
\nlaughs<\/i>) That will be good. So, as soon as my papers are ready, I will call
\nyou and show them to you. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C: Very good. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C leaves. Mother then continues speaking
\nwith E.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I did not ask C if he had seen A because..
\nA is completely in the \u201cpractical\u201d atmosphere of today. It is good it must get
\nstarted! <\/span><\/p>\n

You see, this is what I have learned: the
\nfailure of the religions. It is because they were divided. They wanted people
\nto be religious to the exclusion of the other religions; and every branch of
\nknowledge has been a failure because they were <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 293<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

exclusive; and man has been a failure
\nbecause he was exclusive. And what the new consciousness wants (it is on this
\nthat it insists) is: no more divisions. To be able to understand the spiritual
\nextreme, the material extreme, and to find.. to find the meeting-point, the
\npoint where\u2026 that becomes a real force. <\/span><\/p>\n

From the practical point of view I will
\ntry to make A understand; but I have seen, it seemed to me that what is needed\u2026
\nA, when he is here, looks after Auromod\u00e8le<\/span>, the
\npractical side, all that. It is very necessary, it is very good; and for the
\nbuilding of the Centre, I would like C to do it, and so I would like C to stay
\nwhen A is away; C should be here when A is gone, and we shall do it with C.
\nOnly I don’t want either of them to feel that it is one of them against the
\nother. They must understand that it is to complement one another. I think C
\nwill understand. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But A might take that as an encroachment on his responsibilities? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps not. I will try, I will try. <\/span><\/p>\n

No, when I told him that it was necessary
\nto build the Centre, that I had seen it and that it should be done, he did not
\nobject. He only told me, \u201cBut it will take time.\u201d I told him, \u201cNo, it must be
\ndone at once.\u201d And that is why I am having these sketches made by an engineer
\nto show to him, because it is not an architect’s job, it is an engineer’s job,
\nwith very precise calculations for the light of the sun, very precise. It needs
\nsomeone who really knows. The architect has to see that the columns are
\nbeautiful, that the walls are beautiful, that the proportions are correct <\/span>―<\/span> all that is very good <\/span>―<\/span> and then the symbol at the centre. The
\naspect of beauty, of course the architect should see to that, but the whole
\ncalculation aspect\u2026 And the important thing is this, the play of the sun onto
\nthe centre. Because that becomes the symbol <\/span>―<\/span> the symbol of the future realisation.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 294<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

\n
\n
\n10
\n January 1970<\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/span> <\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I have a letter from C\u2026 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I am going to see him this afternoon. <\/span><\/p>\n

I told you that I had seen the central
\nbuilding of Auroville<\/span>\u2026 I have a plan, would you be
\ninterested to see it? There are some rolls there. <\/span><\/p>\n

(Mother unrolls the plan as she explains<\/span><\/i>) There will be twelve facets. And, at an
\nequal distance from the centre, twelve columns. At the centre, on the ground,
\nis my symbol, and at the centre of my symbol there are four of Sri Aurobindo’s
\nsymbols, upright, forming a square, and on the square a translucent globe (we
\ndon’t know yet in what material). And then, from the top of the roof, when the
\nsun is shining, the sunlight will fall onto it as a ray (nowhere else, only
\nthere). When there is no sun, there will be electric spotlights which will send
\na ray (also a ray, not a diffused light) exactly onto it, onto this globe.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then, there are no doors, but\u2026 going
\ndeep down, one comes up again into the temple. One goes under the wall and
\ncomes up again inside. Again it is a symbol. Everything is symbolic. <\/span><\/p>\n

And then there is no furniture, but on the
\nfloor, like here, there is first wood, probably, then over the wood a thick \u201cdunlop<\/span>\u201d and over it a carpet, like here. The colour is yet
\nto be chosen. The whole place will be white. I am not sure if the symbols of
\nSri Aurobindo will be white\u2026I don’t think so. I did not see them white, I saw
\nthem in an indefinable colour between gold and orange, a kind of colour like
\nthat. They will be upright. They will be carved in stone. And a globe which is
\nnot transparent but translucent. And then, right at the bottom (below the globe<\/i>), there will be a light
\nwhich will be directed upwards, shining diffusely into the globe. And then,
\nfrom outside, there will be rays of light falling onto the centre. And no other
\nlights, no windows, electric ventilation. And not a single piece <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 295<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

of furniture, nothing. A place\u2026 for trying
\nto find one’s consciousness.<\/span><\/p>\n

Outside, it will be something like that (Mother unrolls another plan<\/i>). We don’t
\nknow if the roof will be completely pointed or\u2026 very simple, very simple. It
\nwill be able to hold about two hundred people.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So, C<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s letter? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cVery Sweet Mother,<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cI saw A on Sunday. He came to my room, we had lunch
\ntogether. With love, I arranged for You and for 290A some very beautiful
\nflowers. You were with us. We talked a lot. I felt A as a brother. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cI told him that Auroville<\/span>
\ncannot start like any other town<\/span>―<\/span> city-planning problems, social, economic problems, all that later. The
\nbeginning ought to be `something else’. That is why we should begin with the
\nCentre. This Centre must be our lever, our fixed point, the thing on which we
\ncan support ourselves to try to leap to the other side <\/span>―<\/span> because it is only from the other side that we can begin to understand
\nwhat Auroville<\/span> ought to be. And this Centre should be
\nthe form which manifests in Matter the content which You can transmit to us on
\nall the planes (occult also). As for us, we should be only the open and sincere
\nmedium through which you can materialise that.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cAnd I told him that I have felt the need to approach
\nall that by living the experience within <\/span><\/i>―<\/span><\/i> and all united, people of the East and
\nWest, in a wide movement of love. Because that is the only possible concrete
\nfor building <\/span>
\n<\/span>something else<\/span>\u2019<\/span>.\u201d<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

What he says is good. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cAnd the Centre can give us this love at once because <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 296<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>it is love for You! I told him
\nthat practically we could begin with a moment of silence, all together, and try
\nto make a total blank, and with everyone’s aspiration bring down the
\nindications for the beginning into that blank. But all united and all together,
\nespecially those who are spiritually most advanced (the Indians). <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cA agreed perfectly. He said really this should be
\ndone.\u201d<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(<\/span><\/u>Mother nods approvingly.)<\/u><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/span><\/u><\/i><\/p>\n

I will see C this afternoon to give him
\nthis plan. Because that is what I saw, you know. We will make it in white
\nmarble. F has said that he will fetch the marble, he knows the place. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The whole structure in white marble? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But C told me something which I feel is quite right. He said: We are
\ngoing to build this Centre, we are going to put all our heart and aspiration
\ninto it, into this Centre…. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And with the years it will become more and more \u201ccharged\u201d…. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

So this Centre must be the real thing. This temple should not be removed
\nto build another, bigger one later. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 297<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

I said that to reassure the people who
\nthink that something huge is needed. I said, \u201cWe will begin with this, and then
\nwe will see.\u201d You understand? I said, \u201cThis Centre should be there until the
\ntown is completely built, and afterwards we will see.\u201d Afterwards no one will
\nwant to remove it! <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But he says that from the architectural point of view it is quite
\npossible to extend the thing from the outside, without touching what has
\nalready been built.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, oh, it is quite possible! You see, A
\ntold me, \u201cAnd then what will we do afterwards?\u201d I said, \u201cWell, we will think
\nabout that later!\u201d That’s it! They don’t know\u2026 they don’t know that one must
\nnot think! I didn’t think about it at all, at all, at all. One day, I saw it
\nlike that, as I see you. And even now, it is so living that I only have to look
\nand I see it. And what I saw was the Centre and the light which falls on it and
\nthen, quite naturally, while looking at it I noticed, I said, \u201cThere, it is
\nlike that.\u201d But it was not thought, I did not think \u201ctwelve columns and then
\ntwelve facets and then\u2026\u201d; I did not think all that. I saw.<\/span><\/p>\n

It is like these symbols of Sri
\nAurobindo… When I am speaking of the Centre I still see these four symbols of
\nSri Aurobindo, which support each other at the corners, like that, and this
\ncolour.. a strange colour.. I don’t know where we could find that. It is an
\norange-gold, very warm. And it is the only colour in the place; all the rest is
\nwhite, and the translucent globe. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C said that he would go at once to enquire in Italy, at Murano<\/span>, the place where they make the big crystals, to find
\nout if it is possible to make a globe of thirty centimetres, for example, in
\ncrystal. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The exact measurement is on the plan, it
\nmust be marked. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 298<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

There is a big glass-works there.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh! They make marvellous things there…
\nIsn’t it marked, the size of the globe? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Seventy centimetres. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It can be hollow. It need not be solid, so
\nthat it is not too heavy. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

This underground entrance\u2026 one will enter
\na dozen metres or so away from the wall, at the foot of the urn. The urn will
\nmark the descent. I must choose from which side exactly…. And then, it is
\npossible that later the urn, instead of being outside, will be within<\/i> the enclosure. So perhaps we
\ncould simply put a great wall all around, and then the gardens. Between the
\nenclosure wall and the building we are going to make now, we could have the
\ngardens and the urn. And that wall will have one entrance\u2026 one or several,
\nordinary doors. People will be able to walk in the garden. And then one should
\nfulfil certain conditions to have the right to go down into the underground
\npassage and come out into the temple… That must be something like an
\ninitiation, not just \u201clike that\u201d, no matter how\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

I said to A, \u201cWe will see in twenty years\u201d
\n<\/span>―<\/span> so that calmed him down. But the first idea was to surround it with
\nwater, to make an island so that one would have to cross the water to be able
\nto reach the temple. It is quite possible to make an island….<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 299<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n


\n17 January 1970 <\/span> <\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

What did you want to tell me? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I had a visit from C and G. There are two things. But first there is the
\nplan of the Centre<\/span>―<\/span>\u00a0 <\/span>more precisely, of the outside
\nof the Centre. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The outside <\/span>―<\/span> I have seen nothing. There is a sketch,
\nit is a sketch by F…. I did not see anything at all and I am open to all
\nsuggestions. And then? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C explained something to me which I found very beautiful, which I would
\nlike to submit to you…. When you spoke about this Centre, as a matter of
\nfact, for the outside you said, \u201cI don’t know if the walls will be sloping or
\nif it is the roof which will slope.\u201d You seemed to have some hesitation. So C
\nsays that he received a kind of inspiration, and that he has seen something
\nvery simple, like a great shell, one part of which would come out of the
\nsurface and another part would be buried in the ground. And he has drawn a sort
\nof diagram which I would like to show you. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Have they seen A too? Because A had two
\nideas; he came to see me with two ideas, and I told him which of the two I preferred,
\nbut nothing is decided yet. And A is to make a sketch of his ideas. So I will
\nsee what C says and then I will tell you A<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s ideas. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(E unrolls the plan) So you see, here is the outside, which would be simply like a shell.
\nThe inside is exactly as you have seen it: this great bare carpet, and then the
\nball at the centre. And what led C to his<\/i><\/span> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 300<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>inspiration was that you had said
\none should go underground and come up again. So he had the idea of going deep
\ndown, to make a spiral staircase here, which would come up again, and here
\nthere would be a kind of series of stairs branching out in all directions (in
\nthe lower part of the shell) which would lead into the temple itself. So, all
\nthe lower part would be in black marble and all the upper part in plain white
\nmarble. And the whole thing is like a great bud, you see, as if it were growing
\nout of the earth.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Are you sure that he hasn’t seen A?
\nBecause A told me, \u201cI want to make a great circle; the interior is an exact
\nsemi-circle and the other semi-circle would be underground.\u201d He used almost the
\nsame words. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Because C told him his idea. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah! C had told him! Ah, that’s it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is like a bud coming out of the earth. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, yes, that was the first idea A told
\nme, almost identically the same words. And then, his second idea was a pyramid.
\nTo leave the temple as we had said, and then make a pyramid. But I had also
\nthought of a pyramid, and I told him, \u201cI thought of a pyramid.\u201d But he said
\nthat he would make both plans and that then we would see. But if that agrees
\nwith C’s idea it is very good. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But A<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s idea is C<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s idea, in fact. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Yes, that<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So, when one arrives at the top of the \u201cstalk\u201d, there <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 301<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>is a whole series of stairs in
\nall directions, so that one can come up into the temple from any side… And
\nthen the centre is absolutely bare, and all around there is a kind of gallery
\nonto which one comes up from the bottom; that is where all these stairways will
\nbe. And everything will be bare. There will simply be this huge carpet held
\nfrom corner to corner by these galleries. It will look as if it is suspended.
\nAll white, all plain. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

And there was the question of the twelve
\ncolumns….\u00a0 <\/span>C said that he felt that the
\ncolumns were still an ancient symbol which would not go well with the shell,
\nand he said, \u201cinstead of the twelve columns, symbolically one could put twelve
\nsupports, twelve bases of columns, which would serve as back-rests.\u201d<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh! But the columns have a use, because at
\nthe top of the columns we will put the spotlights which will direct the light
\nonto the centre. There will be light night and day; for the day, openings will
\nbe arranged, but as soon as the sun is gone the spotlights will be lit and the
\nspotlights are fixed on top of the twelve columns and converge onto the centre.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But, Sweet Mother, if the columns are only useful for the spotlights,
\nthe spotlights could also be fixed to the walls? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The columns are not near to the wall. The
\ncolumns are here, exactly half-way between the centre and the wall.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Because C saw this space at the centre all bare, with just the symbol in
\nthe middle and this big carpet all level, not broken up by columns. But instead
\nto put something like big blocks, twelve big blocks which would indicate the
\npositions of the columns and would <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013
\n302<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>serve at the same time as
\nsupports. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

That has no meaning.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

A symbolic meaning? Because you spoke much of the pillars also as a
\nsupport for the people who would like to sit down. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, for their backs. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So he said that these twelve blocks could be, for example, each one in a
\ndifferent material, like a symbol: twelve different materials. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I saw columns, myself. <\/span><\/p>\n

On the outer walls the general ventilation
\nwill be arranged, which will be electric (no windows), and then on the columns
\nthere was the light\u2026I saw columns, I clearly saw the columns. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh well, I will tell him that. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

As for the gallery all around, I don’t
\nknow if I like that much\u2026 I did not see it, I saw the walls completely bare,
\nwithout windows, and then the columns, and then the centre. That I am sure of,
\nbecause I saw it, and I saw it for a long time. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

How do you like the shell shape? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That means that it makes a perfect circle:
\nhalf above, half below…. It will do. Only an arrangement must be made for the
\nsun. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, G knows about the problem of lighting with prisms very well <\/span>―<\/span> because if one wants to catch a ray of the sun, one must use prisms. He
\nsays he will solve<\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 303<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

the problem very easily, he is taking care of it. They
\nsimply put prisms at a certain number of places to capture just one ray of the
\nsun. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It must be one ray. In what I have seen,
\none saw the ray. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s it. With a prism one sees the ray. So there will be a certain number of
\ngeometrical openings according to the movement of the sun…. But inside, on
\nthe inner walls, the twelve facets will be reproduced. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And this, in theory (E points to the circular gallery) these were the entrances
\nby which one came out from the underground passage. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t know if it is good to make many
\nentrances like that… There will be a practical problem to solve; if there is
\nonly one entrance and a very strict watch at that entrance, it is all right,
\nbut if there are several entrances and if there is not enough light, there will
\nbe disasters.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, no, Sweet Mother, there will only be one entrance from the outside,
\nbut when one comes out at the base of the shell there would be these many
\nentrances. No, outside, there is only one descent, which comes down to here, at
\nthe foot of this spiral staircase.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C had thought of this gallery all around because he
\nsaid that would make this central carpet stand out more, all white; it would
\nlook as if it were floating, detached, instead of being stuck against the wall. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 304<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

I did not think of it as \u201cstuck against
\nthe wall\u201d <\/span>―<\/span>\u00a0 <\/span>there was always a passage
\naround the wall. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So it is this passage, with a certain number of galleries. And it was
\nalso this idea of bareness which made him take away the columns. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

What I don’t like is the idea of these
\ngalleries, because the walls were quite straight, from top to bottom, in white
\nmarble. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah! But the galleries are not high. They are about thirty centimetres
\nabove the floor. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, that is all right. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And besides, he said that on this gallery, or rather on this border
\nwhich restricts the passage all around, the carpet could come right up to the
\nangle, cover the angle. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That<\/span>\u2019<\/span>s all right.<\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Good, that’s all right. So they must come
\nto an understanding. But that must be half done already since A spoke to me
\nabout the idea. If I had known that it was C’s idea, I would have said Yes
\nright away. But it will work out. It’s all right.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So then I will tell him to work on this basis… The only question to be
\ndecided is the outside: should a space be left around the shell so that the
\nlower curve of the shell can be clearly seen? Otherwise if everything is filled
\nup, it will simply look like a hemisphere resting on the ground. So that one
\nunderstands clearly <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 305<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

that this shell goes down
\nunderground, he thought of making an opening all around. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t know. I tell you, I have seen
\nnothing for the outside, so I don’t know. But it would be dangerous, one could
\nfall. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Or perhaps one could make a sort of moat with water all around, clear
\nwater which would show the lower curve of the shell, for example? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, yes, that might be good. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

There is also a question of measurements. According to the plan, you
\nhave given twenty-four metres<\/span>―
\n<\/span>twelve metres on each side of the globe.
\nBut can we keep a little extra space on each side for the passage? The plan
\nshows twenty-four metres in diameter and fifteen metres twenty centimetres in
\nheight. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Ah?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C is asking if the proportions can change? To keep twenty-four metres
\nfor the base of the carpet, but with 300the possibility, for example, of
\nkeeping two or three metres on each side for clearance. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Then where would the wall come? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It would be there<\/span><\/i> (E points to the outside of the circular gallery).<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is the wall which must be twenty-four
\nmetres away.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

C says that if these passages are to be there, twenty-four metres would
\nbe a little short. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 306<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

(Silence)<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And the height is also in question.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

The question exactly was that it should
\nmake a perfect circle. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If it makes a perfect circle, then the height will be the radius of the
\ndistance between the two walls. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The thing that would really please me
\nwould be if they could both come to an agreement and present me with a project
\nfrom both of them at once. Like that, it would be easy to carry it out….
\nHasn’t A adopted C’s idea? Why don’t the two of them see together how to carry
\nit out? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, that would simplify things. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, very much.<\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

What will happen under there? (Mother points to the underground part of
\nthe shell<\/i>). All that is mental, but when you are going to have a big
\nbasement, all dark, what is going to happen in there? What is going to happen?
\nLots of unmentionable things. Humanity is not transformed, one should not
\nforget it. And all kinds of people will come…. Even if there is a control at
\nthe entrance you can’t prevent people from going to see, so then what is going
\nto happen under there? That was my first objection when A told me, \u201cWe could
\nmake wonderful underground passages!\u201d I told him, \u201cThat’s all very well, but
\nwho <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 307<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

will control what happens under there ?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I had thought it was your idea, the
\ndescent? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

My idea was quite a short descent, which
\ncame out there (Mother points to the
\nsingle opening of the original plan<\/i>). Quite a short descent, not a great
\ntunnel like that. But it is possible, it is a question of control, that’s all.
\nOnly there is a big difference between a passage with room for two lines of
\npeople (one going up and one going down) and coming out there, and an enormous
\ntunnel like this one <\/span>―<\/span> there is a big difference! And now, in
\naddition, it will be all dark!<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

In black marble, yes. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, then? That means that one will not
\nsee very clearly in there. Then what is going to happen in there? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

These underground areas are not in the form of tunnels; it is a central
\nspiral stairway, and when you arrive at the top of the stairway it branches into
\na series of open stairways, suspended like bridges. It is not enclosed, it is
\nall floating.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

There won’t be any accidents? Ah! There
\nare people with their heads in the clouds who are all ready to break their
\nheads on the floor. You see, it’s a bit too mental for my taste <\/span>―<\/span> I mean that from the mental point of view
\nit is very attractive, but in vision.. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The main idea was to build the lower part collectively, like a symbol. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Long silence) <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 308<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

We’ll see! (Mother laughs.) <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

In any case they must get together. And
\nthen I will see. I would like to be able to have them both together with their
\npaper. Then that would be very good. <\/span><\/p>\n

(Mother enters into a long concentration.)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

We will let it settle.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And for the top, shall we drop this idea of the shell, or should we
\nstudy it further? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

A shell\u2026 the idea was a sphere. Why a
\nshell? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

A shell…well, a round form, a spherical form. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

An egg-shell is elongated, it is not
\nspherical. A real egg is rather like a spinning-top <\/span>―<\/span> so the upper part would be wider and the
\nbase narrower with only the stairs… That is quite possible. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Give me a piece of paper. (Mother draws an egg as she explains<\/i>)
\nAnd then, there, down below, there would only be the stairs, like that, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

His idea was to reproduce the egg of Brahman, you know, the original
\negg. That the temple should represent the original egg. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But then, what is it like, the egg of
\nBrahman? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t know… Like an egg, I think! <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The bottom of an egg is always narrower
\nthan the top. So if we <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 309<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

take an egg like that (Mother draws<\/i>), and at the base this is the staircase, and the
\nspiral staircase comes up to the temple. For example, seven stairway openings. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Seven instead of twelve.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And here (Mother draws the central part of
\nthe egg), it is twenty-four metres and only fifteen and a half metres in
\nheight. Then like that it is correct. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Twenty-four metres for the total width or for the carpet? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, it must have straight walls, the walls
\ncannot be curved, I saw them straight. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Straight, and then curving up. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

According to what I had seen, the columns
\nwere higher than the walls, and that is why the roof sloped. And the electric
\nlight was on the columns. And the widest point of the egg would be here (Mother draws a line at the level of the
\ncarpet)<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

At floor level. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And you said seven openings? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Seven stairways. And then an underground
\npassage which leads to the base of the egg where the seven stairways start
\nfrom. That is possible. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So in fact the inner walls of the temple ought to be straight. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 310<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

That is to say that one can, for the
\noutside, for the appearance, make them rounded. But inside, the wall must be
\nstraight. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The wall straight, and a dome over the straight wall. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, a dome over the straight wall. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nBut
\nthe dome can be the<\/span><\/p>\n

\n dome of the egg, and I had<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\n<\/p>\n

\n thought that the place where the<\/span><\/p>\n

\n dome comes to join the walls<\/span><\/p>\n

\n would be on the columns. Twelve<\/span><\/p>\n

\n columns. And here,
\nfor the outside,<\/span><\/p>\n

\n they can round off their wall<\/span><\/p>\n

\n like that (Mother draws).<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

It would even be possible to have a space
\nbetween the outermost wall and the inner wall. To make a space. That is to be
\nseen. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That means in addition to the twenty-four metres?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, that’s understood. The twenty-four
\nmetres end at the walls. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And the openings for the seven stairways? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I would prefer to have them outside the
\nwall.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, that would be better, because it would give more space in the
\ncentre. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh! Yes, and the interior would be much
\nclearer. I didn’t like the sight of all these stairways. I did not like to see
\neven one stairway, but to see seven\u2026But outside, it is all right. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So a passage outside… <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The passage outside. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 311<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Yes, as in India when one goes around the temple. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. That is all right. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And the seven stairways start directly from the base of the shell
\nwithout this \u201cstalk\u201d coming up from the bottom?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That is how they want it. For below I
\ndon’t mind. If they want it to be a stairway like that or a stairway\u2026 so long
\nas it is not too steep. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

What else have you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

There is the second part of the problem. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah? What is it? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

G and C have realised that if Auroville<\/span>, or
\nthe building of this Centre, is left to the people of Auroville<\/span>,
\nas distinct from the Ashram, it will never work. There will never be the true
\nforce; the people who are there are not receptive enough to do the work. If
\nthere is this division between the Ashram and Auroville<\/span>,
\nit will never work, they will make yet another \u201cfabrication\u201d but not something
\ntrue. According to them, the only hope is that really this Centre should be
\nbuilt not by the Aurovilians<\/span>, but by all the people
\nof the Ashram, with no distinction between Aurovilians<\/span>
\nand non-Aurovilians<\/span>: that the whole force should
\nunite in constructing this Centre<\/span>―<\/span> not to abandon the Aurovilians<\/span> to an external
\nseparation… Just as all the disciples built Golconde<\/span><\/i>\u00b9 An
\nAshram guest house in Pondicherry., in the same way all the disciples should
\nbuild the Centre of Auroville<\/span>, without any outside
\nlabour.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n


\n\u00b9<\/font><\/span>An Ashram guest
\nhouse in Pondicherry.<\/font><\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 312<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

At Golconde<\/span>,
\nthere was outside labour.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Anyway, limiting the outside element as much as possible, so that it is
\na work of consecration. Otherwise, G says, the people of Auroville<\/span>
\nare all full of arrogance, of incomprehension, they see the outside of things.
\nThe force of the people from here must mingle with that. And if the people of
\nthe Ashram do not come to infuse the force, nothing will be achieved…. At the
\npresent moment, C told me, externally, Auroville<\/span>
\nlooks like a necropolis <\/span><\/i>(Mother laughs). It is the living
\nfruit of egoism. The only thing which can save it is for the people of the
\nAshram to go in there and do the work and for the others to be assimilated into
\nthat<\/i><\/span>―<\/span> otherwise… <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span>(Long silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But at the Ashram, we have three centres
\nwhich do construction. There is H, who looks after the maintenance of the
\nhouses, I and F.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But that was not what G meant. He was not speaking at all of a problem
\nof construction. He was speaking of the question that the disciples should work
\nwith the Aurovilians<\/span>. G, as an engineer, and with the
\nmoney collected, will do the construction, but all the labour should be
\nprovided by the people of the Ashram as a whole, who should mix with the Aurovilians<\/span>. That is the idea.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is not possible. All the people of the
\nAshram who are of  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 313<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

working age are all working, they have all
\ngot their work.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

G saw a kind of rota, each one giving, for example, an hour a day, or
\none day a week. Because otherwise…<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

They would simply love that! For them it
\nwould be extraordinary fun. I have more trouble to prevent them from dispersing
\nthemselves than I would ever have to get them to do something. It would be an
\namusement for them. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Because he says that without the inner force of the people of the Ashram
\nmingling with the Aurovilians<\/span>, the people from Auroville<\/span> will remain what they are…. He says otherwise there
\nis no hope. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh no! He does not know. It is all in the
\nmind, it is all mental. They do not know. Who knows? It is only when one sees.
\nNot one of them sees. All thoughts, thoughts, thoughts….Thoughts do not
\nbuild. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The elements in Auroville<\/span> can do the work? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I am working, working (kneading gesture<\/i>) to bring together the
\nenergies that can do it. And there must be a sifting out there.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But, you understand, they are talking about
\nphysical work, and for physical work there are only the young people who are at
\nthe school all the Ashramites<\/span> have grown old, my
\nchild, they are all old. There are only the young people at the <\/span>―<\/span> school. And the young ones who are at the
\nschool are not here to be Ashramites<\/span>, they are here
\nto be educated <\/span>―<\/span> it is up to them to choose. Many, many of them want to go to Auroville<\/span>. So it <\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 314<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

would be the educational side of the
\nAshram which would go to Auroville<\/span>… There are many
\nof them. But give me the names <\/span>―<\/span> who can go and work with his hands?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But, Sweet Mother, the only possibility is that you should speak, and
\nthen I, tomorrow I will go and spend two hours in Auroville<\/span>
\nand collect \u201cbaskets\u201d. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Mother laughs<\/span><\/i>) My child, you are one of the youngest…
\nDo you see me telling J: \u201cGo and work\u201d? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah, but that would attract all the others. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Mother laughs<\/span><\/i>) Poor J! <\/span><\/p>\n

(Long silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If you knew how many letters I receive
\nfrom so-called Aurovilians<\/span> who say, \u201cOh, I want to be
\nquiet at last, I want to come to the Ashram, I do not want to be an Aurovilian<\/span> any more.\u201d There, it is just the opposite, \u201cI
\nwant to be quiet.\u201d There. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You know, I do not believe in external
\ndecisions. I simply believe in one thing only: the force of the Consciousness
\nwhich is making a pressure<\/i> like that
\n(crushing gesture<\/i>). And the pressure
\ngoes on increasing\u2026which means that it will sift out the people. I believe only
\nin that <\/span>―<\/span> the pressure of the Consciousness. All the rest are things that men do.
\nThey do them more or less well, and then it lives, and then it dies, and then
\nit changes, and then it gets distorted, and then\u2026everything they have done. It
\nis not worth the trouble. The power of execution must come from above, like
\nthat, imperative (gesture of descent)! And for that, this (Mother points to her forehead),<\/i> this <\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013
\n315<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

must keep quiet. Not to say, \u201cOh, that
\nmust not be, oh! this must be, oh! we ought to do\u2026\u201d Peace, peace, peace. He knows
\nbetter than you do what is needed. There.<\/span><\/p>\n

So since there are not many people who can
\nunderstand, I say nothing. I watch and I wait. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If they can come to an agreement, the work
\nwill go faster. There. Objections about details have no importance, because one
\nsets out with one idea and one arrives with another\u2026one makes a lot of progress
\nin between. So that does not need to be discussed, it is only\u2026 Only try to
\nunite your energies to get started more quickly, that’s all. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Mother laughs.) <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 316<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Matrimandir Talks\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0   31 December 1969   That was the first idea: there was the Centre and the town was organised around it. Now…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[111],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3851","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-13-words-of-the-mother-volume-13","wpcat-111-id"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3851","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3851"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3851\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3851"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3851"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3851"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}