{"id":3887,"date":"2013-07-13T01:51:59","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:51:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=3887"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:51:59","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:51:59","slug":"38-5-october-1955-vol-07-questions-and-answers-volume-07","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/07-questions-and-answers-volume-07\/38-5-october-1955-vol-07-questions-and-answers-volume-07","title":{"rendered":"-38_5 October 1955.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n


\n5
\nOctober 1955 <\/font> <\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0
\n\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mother reads The Great Secret: The Scientist<\/font><\/span>. <\/font> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I had the intention of leaving out the
\nlast speeches and going straight to the answer of the Unknown Man. But… I
\nshall tell you, because it didn’t raise… it seemed to me that it didn’t give
\nrise to enough questions to justify all the time we would spend in reading
\nit… but it happens that, for this one, \u201cThe Scientist\u201d, someone who, by the
\nway, is not here, has urgently asked two questions which seem interesting to
\nme. So I shall read \u201cThe Scientist\u201d today, and next week we shall directly take
\nup \u201cThe Unknown Man\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(After Mother has read \u201cThe Scientist\u201d, Pavitra gets ready to read the
\nquestions.) <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So, will you read them, Pavitra? You can’t
\nsee well? We can switch on the light again. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Pavitra) No, no, it is all right, Mother. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

The scientist speaks of two postulates with which he
\nhas undertaken the research of the secrets of Nature and which would have
\ndwindled gradually. <\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cFor me\u201d, he says, \u201cignorance was the primary if not
\nthe only evil\u2026\u201d  <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Isn’t it truly so? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That is, put plainly the question is this:
\nIsn’t ignorance the first and perhaps even the sole evil of humanity? <\/span><\/p>\n

 Science, which considers the world
\nfrom the most material point of view, has asserted it; and one of the greatest
\nspiritual masters, one of the greatest enlighteners and minds which have sought
\nfor the solution of the ills of humanity on the extreme <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 316<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

opposite plane, has said the same thing \u2013
\nI am speaking of the Buddha. And both are at once right and wrong, in the sense
\nthat each of them sees only one side of the question. It is true that one can
\nreduce the difficulty to a certain aspect and that this makes it easier to
\nsolve the problem, though it’s not sure whether the solution is absolutely
\neffective. But in any case, if we speak of ignorance, if we see the problem
\nfrom the angle of ignorance \u2013 that it’s because man doesn’t have the knowledge
\nthat he can’t be saved \u2013 it seems obvious. But what knowledge are we speaking
\nabout?  <\/span><\/p>\n

The scientist will tell you: Study the
\nlaws of Nature, know all that it can teach you and it will give you the
\nknowledge which will enable you to master life and become its possessor instead
\nof being possessed by it. But here we see, according to what we have just read,
\nthat as he goes on studying and searching, sincerely and more and more deeply,
\nhe becomes aware that there is something which eludes him, because, quite
\nnaturally, he comes to the limit of the material world and, there, he faces a
\nprecipice; he can no longer carry on his research in what is beyond, because
\nthe same methods don’t suffice.  <\/span><\/p>\n

But if we take the question from the other
\nend, we shall see that the ignorance the Buddha was speaking about was not at
\nall that which consists in not knowing that if one swallows poison one is
\npoisoned, or that if one keeps his head under water without breathing, he is
\nsure to be drowned; it is not even in not knowing how Nature builds the atoms;
\nbut for him ignorance consisted in believing that the world was real and that
\nlife could be good if one had the good luck to live in favourable conditions.
\nTo come into the world was to be born into ignorance; it was the result,
\naccording to him, of a desire to live; and as this desire for life was in
\nitself the supreme ignorance, if one abolished desire, quite naturally after
\nsome time one would abolish life, since it is its result \u2013 life, the world and
\nall this unhealthy and baneful appearance.  <\/span><\/p>\n

So for him, to come out of the ignorance
\nmeant coming out<\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 317<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

of this false conviction that the world
\nwas something real, and above all, from the desire to live which was the
\nsupreme stupidity. Only, he found himself facing another problem which was at
\nleast as serious, if not still more so than the problem of the scientist. It
\nwas that his remedy was good only for the individual; it could apply only to an
\nextremely limited number of individuals who had already undergone countless
\nexperiences, through lives as countless, to await the time when they were ready
\nto understand this truth and liberate themselves from the world by liberating
\nthemselves from desire, and disappear into Nirvana.  <\/span><\/p>\n

But how can these final conversions be
\nsufficiently multiplied so as to succeed in making the world disappear? This
\nseems impossible, because the process is progressive and one must pass through
\nall the stages of conscious life until one comes to the state when he is ready
\nto take flight into Nirvana. And so, during all this time, what happens to all
\nthese poor people, not only to people but to animals also and to plants, to all
\nthis life which suffers and struggles and strains? So, even deprived of all
\nhope… because at least the scientists tell you, \u201cWe are going to find the
\nmeans of making life more comfortable for you.\u201d They don’t seem to have
\ndiscovered this very well, because this kind of comfort complicates life and
\ndoesn’t make it more pleasant. Still at least they give you a gleam of hope,
\nwhile the other tells you, \u201cWait, wait. When your turn comes you will pass over
\nto the other side.\u201d But while waiting one is not happy. So perhaps it could be
\nsaid that this way of approaching the problem is not altogether satisfactory,
\nfor it is a purely and exclusively mental way, and can satisfy only those who
\nhave a mental life, and they do not form the majority. Besides, this is what
\nhas caused all religions to be vulgarised, even those which had at the start
\nsomething very high and very true to give; they have been obliged to reduce it
\nto the proportion of the human consciousness. For humanity suffers and it is not
\nwith beautiful ideas that it is cured. <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 318<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Something else is necessary. This perhaps
\nwe shall see at the end when we come to it. For the moment… <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Pavitra) The second postulate: \u201cThat it is possible to know the universe as it really
\nis, to grasp its laws objectively.\u201d <\/i>  <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The kind of regularity which we observe in the
\nuniverse and translate into what we call the laws of Nature \u2013 does it have an
\nexistence independent of us? Or is it that these so-called laws exist only in
\nour mind?  <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Is it not possible to know the universe in its reality
\nas it is in itself, independently of the observer or thinker? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Yes, there is a way: it is by
\nidentification. But obviously it is a means which eludes absolutely all
\nphysical methods. I think that this weakness comes solely from the method used,
\nbecause one has remained in an absolutely superficial consciousness; and the
\nphenomenon which took place the first time takes place again a second time. If
\nyou push your investigation far enough, you suddenly come to a point where your
\nphysical methods are no longer of any worth. And in fact one can know only what
\none is. So if you want to know the universe, you must become the universe. You
\ncannot become the universe physically, you know; but perhaps there is a way of
\nbecoming the universe: it is in the consciousness.  <\/span><\/p>\n

If you identify your consciousness with
\nthe universal consciousness, then you know what is happening.  <\/span><\/p>\n

But that’s the only way; there are no
\nothers. It is an absolute fact that one knows only what one is, and if one
\nwants to know something, one must become that. So you see, there are many
\npeople who say, \u201cIt is impossible\u201d, but that’s because they remain on a certain
\nplane. It is obvious that if you remain only on the material plane or even on
\nthe mental plane, you cannot <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 319<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

know the universe, because the mind is not
\nuniversal; it is only a means of expression of the universe; and it is only by
\nan essential identification that you can then know things, not from outside
\ninwards but from inside outwards. This is not impossible. It is altogether
\npossible. It has been done. But it can’t be done with instruments, however
\nperfected they may be. Here one must once again make something else intervene,
\nother regions, other realities than purely material ones, including the mind
\nwhich belongs to the physical life, the terrestrial life.  <\/span><\/p>\n

One can know everything, but one must know
\nthe way. And the way is not learnt through books, it cannot be written in
\nnumbers. It is only by practising… And here then, it demands an abnegation, a
\nconsecration, a perseverance and an obstinacy \u2013 still more considerable than
\nwhat the sincerest, most honest, most unselfish scientists have ever shown. But
\nI must say that the scientific method of work is a marvellous discipline; and
\nwhat is curious is that the method recommended by the Buddha for getting rid of
\ndesires and the illusion of the world is also one of the most marvellous
\ndisciplines ever known on the earth. They are at the two ends, they are both
\nexcellent; those who follow one or the other in all sincerity truly prepare
\nthemselves for yoga. A small click, somewhere, is enough to make them leave
\ntheir fairly narrow point of view on one side or the other so as to be able to
\nenter into an integrality which will lead them to the supreme Truth and
\nmastery.  <\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t know whether ignorance is the
\ngreatest obstacle on the path of humanity… We said that it was an almost
\nexclusively mental obstacle and that the human being is much more complex than
\na mental being, though he is supremely mental, for he is its new creation in
\nthe world. He represents the last possibility of Nature, and in that, naturally
\nhis mental life has taken immense proportions, because he has the pride of
\nbeing the only one upon earth to have it. He does not always make a good use of
\nit, still it is like this. But it’s not here that he will find the solution. He
\nmust go beyond. There we are.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 320<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Now, has someone else a question? No? No
\none? (To a child<\/i>) Do you have a
\nquestion? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Mother, from the Stone Age to our times, if we see, man has made
\nprogress only in the mind, that is, in the scientific field, and why no
\nprogress in his… <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You think so? Who has told you this? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is here (in the text), it is said that we are almost in the Stone
\nAge… <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah, ah! It’s he (pointing to Pavitra<\/i>) who has said it. (Laughter<\/i>)  <\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps man had to prepare his mind first.
\nIn the Stone Age his mind was a little rustic, eh! there wasn’t much stuff
\nthere. He had to develop it before being able to go beyond it. It has taken a
\nlong time but we have all the same come to something.  <\/span><\/p>\n

It is quite obvious that from the purely
\nmental point of view, of the physical mind, well, we have come a long way since
\nthe Stone Age. It is said that we haven’t made much progress because there’s
\nsomething else which has not been much developed; just because we were much too
\noccupied in playing with a new instrument; yes, it is so interesting to have a
\nnew game here! People played with it, they tried all the ways of using it. From
\nthe practical point of view their games were above all applications of this,
\nyes! Even the atomic bomb is yet a way of playing; it is a little macabre but
\nstill it is a game. It is not with a clear, definite vision, a plan, an
\norganisation to make the whole thing advance towards the goal, the true goal.
\nIt is not that. It was absolutely… it is still… like children in a
\nrecreation courtyard: they invent, they search, play, find out, they jostle one
\nanother, fight, make up, quarrel, discover, destroy, construct. But there is a
\nplan behind; there was a plan; there is still a plan; there is more and more of
\na plan. And perhaps all this <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 321<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

that is playing on the surface, despite all,
\nis leading to something which will come forth one day; perhaps if we speak of
\nit now and think so much about it, it is perhaps… at a given moment surely it
\nmust come about, eh! It may take place slowly, by stages, but still there is a
\nmoment when it begins to take place. So it is perhaps that we have reached this
\nmoment.  <\/span><\/p>\n

However, we must not anticipate, we shall
\nspeak about it next time. <\/span><\/p>\n

There, then, is that all? <\/span><\/p>\n

No more questions? Nothing? (To a child<\/i>) You have nothing to say this
\nevening?…\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

No? Good. Then, au revoir, my children. <\/span>
\n
\n <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 322<\/font><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\t
\n\t<\/font><\/b><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

5 October 1955 \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0 Mother reads The Great Secret: The Scientist.   I had the intention of leaving out the last speeches and going…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[112],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3887","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-07-questions-and-answers-volume-07","wpcat-112-id"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3887","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3887"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3887\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3887"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3887"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3887"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}