{"id":3962,"date":"2013-07-13T01:52:31","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:52:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=3962"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:52:31","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:52:31","slug":"45-4-november-1958-vol-15-words-of-the-mother-volume-15","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/15-words-of-the-mother-volume-15\/45-4-november-1958-vol-15-words-of-the-mother-volume-15","title":{"rendered":"-45_4 November 1958 .htm"},"content":{"rendered":"
\n\n\n
\n


\n4 November 1958 <\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Do the gods of the Puranas and the gods of
\nGreek and Egyptian mythology have any real existence? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Between the gods
\nof the Puranas and the gods of Greek and Egyptian mythology, all kinds of
\nsimilarities are found; it could be an interesting subject for study. To the
\nmodern Western world, all these divinities − the Greek gods and other
\n\u201cpagan\u201d gods, as they call them − are simply a product of human
\nimagination and correspond to nothing real in the universe. But this is a gross
\nerror. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>To understand the mechanism of universal
\nlife, even that of terrestrial life, one has indeed to know that all these are
\nreal and living beings, each in its own realm, and have an independent reality.
\nThey would exist even if men did not exist. The majority of these gods existed
\nbefore man existed. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>In a very old tradition, probably dating
\nbefore the Chaldean and Vedic traditions, which are its two branches, the
\nhistory of creation is narrated not from the metaphysical or psychological
\npoint of view, but from an objective point of view, and this history is as real
\nas our history of historical epochs. Of course, this is not the only way of
\nlooking at the thing, but it is quite as legitimate as any other; and in any
\ncase it recognises the concrete reality of these divine beings. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>These are beings who<\/span>
\nbelong to the progressive creation of the universe and have themselves presided
\nover its formation, from the most ethereal or subtle to the most material
\nregions; it is a descent of the divine creative Spirit. And they descended
\nprogressively, through realities more and more − one cannot say dense,
\nbecause it is not dense, one cannot even say material, because matter as we
\nknow it does not exist on those planes − through realities more and more
\nconcrete. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>According to traditions and occult
\nschools, all these zones  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 375<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

of<\/span><\/span> realities, these planes of realities have
\ngot different names; they have been classified in a different way, but there is
\nan essential analogy, and if you go back far enough into the traditions, you
\nsee only the words changing according to the country and the language. Even
\nnow, the experiences of Western occultists and those of Eastern occultists
\noffer great similarities. All who set out on the discovery of these invisible
\nworlds and make a report of what they saw, give a very similar description,
\nwhether they be from here or there; they use different words, but the
\nexperience is very similar and the handling of forces is the same. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>This knowledge of the occult worlds is
\nbased on the existence of subtle bodies and of subtle worlds corresponding to
\nthose bodies. They are what the psychological method calls \u201cstates of
\nconsciousness\u201d, but these states of consciousness really correspond to worlds.
\nThe occult procedure consists then in being aware of these various inner states
\nof being or subtle bodies and in becoming sufficiently a master of them so as
\nto be able to go out of them successively, one after another. There is indeed a
\nwhole scale of subtleties, increasing or decreasing according to the direction
\nin which you go, and the occult procedure consists in going out of a denser
\nbody into a subtler body and so on again, up to the most ethereal regions. You
\ngo, by successive exteriorisations, into bodies or worlds more and more subtle.
\nIt is somewhat as if every time you passed into another dimension. The fourth
\ndimension of the physicists is nothing but the scientific transcription of an
\noccult knowledge. To give another image, one can say that the physical body is
\nat the center − it is the most material, the densest and also the
\nsmallest − and the inner bodies, more subtle, overflow more and more the
\ncentral physical body; they pass through it, extending themselves farther and
\nfarther, like water evaporating from a porous vase and forming a kind of steam
\nall around. And the greater the subtlety, the more the extension tends to unite
\nwith that of the universe: one ends by universalising oneself.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 376<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

And it is altogether
\na concrete process which gives an objective experience of invisible worlds and
\neven enables one to act in these worlds. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>There are, then, only a very small number
\nof people in the West who know that these gods are not merely subjective and
\nimaginary − more or less wildly imaginary − but that they
\ncorrespond to a universal truth. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>All these regions, all these domains are
\nfilled with beings who exist, each in its own domain, and if you are awake and
\nconscious on a particular plane − for instance, if on going out of a more
\nmaterial body you awake on some higher plane, you have the same relation with
\nthe things and people of that plane as you had with the things and people of
\nthe material world. That is to say, there exists an entirely objective relation
\nthat has nothing to do with the idea you may have of these things. Naturally,
\nthe resemblance is greater and greater as you approach the physical world, the
\nmaterial world, and there even comes a time when the one region has a direct
\naction upon the other. In any case, in what Sri Aurobindo calls the overmental
\nworlds, you will find a concrete reality absolutely independent of your
\npersonal experience; you go back there and again find the same things, with the
\ndifferences that have occurred during your absence. And you have relations with
\nthose beings that are identical with the relations you have with physical
\nbeings, with this difference that the relation is more plastic, supple and
\ndirect − for example, there is the capacity to change the external form,
\nthe visible form, according to the inner state you are in. But you can make an
\nappointment with someone and be at the appointed place and find the same being
\nagain, with certain differences that have come about during your absence; it is
\nentirely concrete with results entirely concrete. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>One must have at least a little of this
\nexperience in order to understand these things. Otherwise, those who are
\nconvinced that all this is mere human imagination and mental formation, who
\nbelieve that these gods have such and such a form because  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 377<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

men have thought
\nthem to be like that, and that they have certain defects and certain qualities
\nbecause men have thought them to be like that − all those who say that
\nGod is made in the image of man and that he exists only in human thought, all
\nthese will not understand; to them this will appear absolutely ridiculous,
\nmadness. One must have lived a little, touched the subject a little, to know
\nhow very concrete the thing is. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Naturally, children know a good deal if
\nthey have not been spoilt. There are so many children who return every night to
\nthe same place and continue to live the life they have begun there. When these
\nfaculties are not spoilt with age, you can keep them with you. At a time when I
\nwas especially interested in dreams, I could return exactly to a place and
\ncontinue a work that I had begun: supervise something, for example, set
\nsomething in order, a work of organisation or of discovery, of exploration. You
\ngo until you reach a certain spot, as you would go in life, then you take a
\nrest, then you return and begin again − you begin the work at the place
\nwhere you left off and you continue it. And you perceive that there are things
\nwhich are quite independent of you, in the sense that changes of which you are
\nnot at all the author, have taken place automatically during your absence. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>But for this, you must live <\/i>these experiences yourself, you
\nmust see them yourself,<\/span> live them with sufficient
\nsincerity and spontaneity in order to see that they are independent of any
\nmental formation. For you can do the opposite also, and deepen the study of the
\naction of mental formation upon events. This is very interesting, but it is
\nanother domain. And this study makes you very careful, very prudent, because
\nyou become aware of how far you can delude yourself. So you must study both,
\nthe dream and the occult reality, in order to see what is the
\nessential <\/i>difference between the two<\/span>.
\nThe one depends upon us; the other exists in itself; entirely independent of
\nthe thought that we have of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>When you have worked in that domain, you
\nrecognise in  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 378<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

fact<\/span><\/span> that once a subject has been studied and
\nsomething has been learnt mentally, it gives a special colour to the
\nexperience; the experience may be quite spontaneous and sincere, but the simple
\nfact that the subject was known and studied lends a particular quality. Whereas
\nif you had learnt nothing about the question, if you knew nothing at all, the
\ntranscription would be completely spontaneous and sincere when the experience
\ncame; it would be more or less adequate, but it would not be the outcome of a
\nprevious mental formation. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Naturally, this occult knowledge or this
\nexperience is not very frequent in the world, because in those who do not have
\na developed inner life, there are veritable gaps between the external
\nconsciousness and the inmost consciousness; the linking states of being are
\nmissing and they have to be constructed. So when people enter there for the
\nfirst time, they are bewildered, they have the impression they have fallen into
\nthe night, into nothingness, into non-being !<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>I had a Danish friend, a painter, who was
\nlike that. He wanted me to teach him how to go out of the body; he used to have
\ninteresting dreams and thought that it would be worth the trouble to go there
\nconsciously. So I made him \u201cgo out\u201d − but it was a frightful thing !<\/span> When he was dreaming, a part of his mind still
\nremained conscious, active, and a kind of link existed between this active part
\nand his external being; then he remembered some of his dreams, but it was a
\nvery partial phenomenon. And to go out of one\u2019s body means to pass gradually
\nthrough it all the states of being, if one does the thing systematically. Well,
\nalready in the subtle physical, one is almost de-individualised, and when one
\ngoes farther, there remains nothing, for nothing is formed or individualised. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Thus, when people are asked to meditate or
\ntold to go within, to enter into themselves, they are in agony − naturally !<\/span> They have the impression that they are vanishing.
\nAnd with reason: there is nothing, no consciousness !<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>These things that appear to us quite
\nnatural and evident, <\/span>are<\/span><\/span>, for people who know nothing, wild
\nimagination. <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 379<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\nIf, for example, you transplant these experiences or this
\nknowledge to the West, well, unless you have been frequenting the circles of
\noccultists, they stare at you with open eyes. And when you have turned your
\nback, they hasten to say, \u201cThese people are cranks !\u201d<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Now to come back to the
\ngods and conclude.<\/span> It must be said that all those beings who have never
\nhad an earthly existence − gods or demons, invisible beings and powers −
\ndo not possess what the Divine has put into man: the psychic being. And this
\npsychic being gives to man true love, charity, compassion, a deep kindness,
\nwhich compensate for all his external defects. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>In the gods there is no fault because they
\nlive according to their own nature, spontaneously and without constraint: as
\ngods, it is their manner of being. But if you take a higher point of view, if
\nyou have a higher vision, a vision of the whole, you see that they lack certain
\nqualities that are exclusively human. By his capacity of love and self-giving,
\nman can have as much power as the gods and even more, when he is not egoistic,
\nwhen he has surmounted his egoism. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>If he fulfils the required condition, man
\nis nearer to the Supreme than the gods are. He can be nearer. He is not so
\nautomatically, but he has the power to be so, the potentiality. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>If human love manifested itself without
\nmixture, it would be all-powerful. Unfortunately, in human love there is as
\nmuch love of oneself as of the one loved; it is not a love that makes you
\nforget yourself.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 380<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n


\n
\n8
\n November 1958<\/a><\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/a> <\/span><\/i><\/b>  <\/span><\/p>\n

EXPERIENCE OF <\/span><\/b>5 NOVEMBER 1958<\/span><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

New Year Message for 1959 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

At the very bottom of the inconscience
\nmost hard and rigid and narrow and stifling I struck upon an almighty spring
\nthat cast me up forthwith into a formless limitless Vast vibrating with the
\nseeds of a new world. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Here is the origin
\nof this message: <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Last evening in the class,\u00b9<\/span> I noticed that the children, who had a whole week to
\nprepare questions on the text we are reading, did not find a single one. A
\nterrible somnolence !<\/span> A total lack of interest !<\/span> When I had finished my reading, I said to myself,
\n\u201cBut what is there in these brains that does not take interest in anything but
\ntheir small personal affairs? After all, what is happening inside there, behind
\nthese forms?\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Then during the meditation, I began going
\ndown into the mental atmosphere of the people around me, in order to find there
\nthe small light, the thing that responds. And I was literally dragged down to
\nthe bottom, as if into a hole. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>In this hole I saw what I am still seeing.
\nI went down into a fissure, as it were, between two steep rocks, rocks made of
\nsomething harder than basalt, black, metallic at the same time, with edges so
\nsharp that you had the impression that were you simply to touch them, you would
\nbe flayed. It was something that seemed to have no bottom and no end, and it
\nbecame narrower and narrower like a funnel, so narrow that there was almost no
\nroom left even for the consciousness to pass. The bottom was invisible, a black
\nhole, and that went down and <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00b9Mother\u2019s weekly \u201cWednesday class\u201d, held at the Ashram
\nPlayground<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 381<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

down<\/span><\/span> and down, without air, without light,
\nonly a kind of glimmer, like a reflection at the peak of the rocks, a glimmer
\nthat came from beyond, from something that could be the heavens, but something
\ninvisible. I continued to slide down the fissure and I saw the edges, the black
\nrocks, cut with scissors, as it were, shining like a fresh cut, the edges so
\nsharp that they were like knives. Here was one, there another, there another,
\neverywhere, all around. And I was dragged, dragged, dragged down, − I
\nwent down, down, down and there was no end to it, it became more and more
\noppressive, stifling, suffocating. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Physically, the body followed, it
\nparticipated in the experience. The hand that was on the arm of the chair
\nslipped down, then the other hand, then the head bent down in an irresistible
\nmovement. Then I said to myself, \u201cBut this must stop, for if it continues, my
\nhead will be down on the ground !\u201d<\/span> (The consciousness
\nwas elsewhere, but I was looking at my body from outside.) And I asked myself,
\n\u201cBut what is there at the bottom of this hole ?\u201d<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Hardly had I formulated the question when
\nit was as if I had touched a spring that was there at the very bottom of the
\nhole, a spring I had not noticed yet, which acted at once with a tremendous
\nforce and at one bound shot me up straight into the air; I was cast out of the
\nfissure into a limitless, formless vast which was infinitely comfortable −
\nnot exactly warm, but it gave a comfortable impression of inner warmth. After
\nthis painful enough descent, it was a kind of super-comfort, an ease, an ease
\nat its maximum. And my body immediately followed the movement,<\/span>
\nthe head at once became straight again. And I lived all this without
\nobjectifying it at all; I was not taking stock of what it was, I did not look
\nfor any explanation of what was happening; it was what it was, I lived it and
\nthat was all. The experience was absolutely spontaneous. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It was all-powerful, infinitely rich; it
\nhad no form at all, no limit − naturally I was identified with it and
\nthat is why I knew that it had neither limit nor form. It was as if − I
\nsay \u201cas if\u201d  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 382<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

because it could
\nnot be seen − as if this vast was made up of countless imperceptible
\npoints, points that did not occupy any place in space (there was no space, you
\nsee), points that were a deep warm gold; but this was only an impression, a
\ntranslation. And all that was absolutely living<\/i>,
\nliving with a power that seemed infinite. And yet it was immobile, with an
\nimmobility so perfect that it gave a feeling of eternity, but with an
\nunbelievable inner intensity of movement and life − it was inner,
\nself-contained − and immobile, immobile in relation to the outside, if
\nthere was an outside. And it had a boundless life − it may be spoken of
\nas infinite only by way of image − and an intensity, a strength, a force,
\na peace, the peace of eternity, a silence, a calm, a power capable of
\neverything. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>And I did not think it, I did not
\nobjectify it, I lived it comfortably, very comfortably. This lasted for a very
\nlong time − for the rest of the meditation. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It was as if that contained all the wealth
\nof possibilities. And all that though it had no form, had the power to become
\nforms. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>After a moment I asked myself, \u201cWhat is this,
\nto what does it correspond?\u201d Naturally I found out afterwards, and finally this
\nmorning I told myself, \u201cWell, it is just to give me my message for the coming
\nyear.\u201d Then I transcribed it − naturally, you cannot make a description,
\nit is indescribable. It was a psychological phenomenon and the forms were
\nnothing but a way of describing the psychological state to oneself. And this is
\nwhat I noted, obviously in a mental way. I have described nothing,<\/span>
\nI have only stated a fact: <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

At the very bottom of the inconscience
\nmost hard and rigid and narrow and stifling I struck upon an almighty spring
\nthat cast me up forthwith into a formless limitless Vast vibrating with the
\nseeds of a new world.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Generally the inconscience gives the
\nimpression of something <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 383<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

amorphous, inert,
\nformless, neutral and grey − formerly, when I entered into the zones of
\ninconscience, that was the first thing that I met; but in my experience
\nyesterday, it was an inconscience hard, rigid, coagulated, as if coagulated for
\na resistance. It was a mental inconscience; all efforts make no impression on
\nit, nothing can penetrate it. And this inconscience is much worse than a purely
\nmaterial inconscience. It was not the original inconscient; it was, if one may
\nsay so, a mentalised inconscient. All this rigidity, hardness, narrowness, fixity<\/span>, opposition come from a mental presence in the
\ncreation: this is what the mind has brought into the inconscient. When the mind
\nhad not manifested, the inconscient was not like that: it was formless and had
\nthe plasticity of formless things. That plasticity has disappeared. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>The beginning of the experience is a very
\nexpressive image of the action of mind in the inconscient; it has made the
\ninconscient aggressive − it was not like that before − aggressive,
\nresisting, obstinate. That was precisely the starting-point of my experience. I
\nwas in fact trying to look into the mental inconscience of people, and this
\nmental inconscience refuses <\/i>to
\nchange, while the other did not; the purely material inconscience has no mode
\nof being, it does not exist, it is not organised in any way. While this one is
\nan organised inconscience, organised through the beginning of a mental
\ninfluence and it is a hundred times worse !<\/span> It has now
\nbecome a much greater obstacle than before. Before, it did not even have the
\npower to resist, it had nothing, it<\/span> was truly
\ninconscient. Now it is an inconscience organised in its refusal to change !<\/span> So I wrote, \u201cmost hard and rigid and narrow\u201d
\n− the idea is of something which presses you, presses you\u201d − most
\nstifling\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Then I wrote, \u201cI struck upon an almighty
\nspring.\u201d That means precisely this: in the deepest depths of the inconscient,
\nthere is a supreme spring that enables us to touch the Supreme. Because at the very bottom of the inconscience there is the
\nSupreme.<\/span> It is the Supreme who enables us to touch the <\/span>Supreme.<\/span><\/span> This is the \u201calmighty spring\u201d.<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 384<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It is always the same idea that the
\nhighest height touches the deepest depth. The universe is like a circle; it is
\nrepresented by a serpent that bites its own tail. That means that the supreme
\nheight touches the most material matter without any intermediary. I have said
\nthis many times, but here it was an experience of the thing as I had it. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Finally I said, \u201ca<\/span>
\nformless limitless Vast vibrating with the seeds of a new world\u201d. This does not
\nrefer to the primordial creation, but to the supramental creation; so this
\nexperience does not correspond to a return to the supreme origin of all. I had
\naltogether the impression that I was projected into the origin of the
\nsupramental creation: it is something of the Supreme that has already been
\nobjectified precisely for the sake of the supramental creation. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>There was in fact this entire impression
\nof power, of warmth and of gold. It was not fluid, but like a powdery mist. And
\neach one of these things (they cannot be called particles or fragments or even
\npoints, unless point is taken in the mathematical sense, a point that does not
\noccupy any place in space) was like living gold, a powdery mist of warm gold
\n− one cannot call it bright, nor can one call it dark; neither was it
\nlight: a multitude of small points of gold, nothing but that. One could say
\nthat they touched my eyes, my face\u2026 and with a tremendous force
\n!<\/span> At the same time, there was the feeling of a plenitude, of an all −
\npowerful peace − it was rich, it was full. It was movement at its
\nmaximum, infinitely more swift<\/span> than anything that one
\ncan imagine, and at the same time it was absolute peace, perfect stillness. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>And this almighty spring was a perfect
\nimage of what happens, is bound to happen and will happen for everybody<\/i>: all at once you shoot up into the vast. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>The experience that I have just described
\nwas followed by another which was also noted down at the time.\u00b9<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00b9See the following
\ntalk of <\/font> <\/span>15 November 1958<\/span><\/font>.
\n<\/font> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 385<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n


\n
\n15
\n November 1958<\/a><\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/a> <\/span><\/i><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

EXPERIENCE OF <\/span><\/b>13 NOVEMBER 1958<\/span><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>To tell the truth, you are never freed
\nfrom hostile forces until you come out for good into the Light, above the lower
\nhemisphere. And there the phrase \u201chostile forces\u201d loses its meaning; only the
\nforces of progress are there in order to compel you to progress. But you must
\ncome out of the lower hemisphere in order to see things in that way; because
\nbelow, they are very real in their opposition to the divine plan. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It was said in the old traditions that one
\ncould not live more than twenty days in that higher state without leaving one\u2019s
\nbody and returning to the supreme origin. Now that is no
\nlonger true.<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It is precisely this state of perfect
\nharmony, beyond all attacks, that will become possible with the supramental
\nrealisation. It is that which will be realised for all who are destined for the
\nsupramental transformation. The adverse forces know quite well that in the supramental
\nworld they will automatically disappear: having no more use, they will be
\ndissolved without the need to do anything, simply through the presence of the
\nsupramental force. That is why they rush about in a rage, negating everything,
\neverything. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>But the link between the two worlds has
\nnot yet been built − it is in the course of being built. That was the
\nmeaning of the experience of February third,\u00b9<\/span> namely,
\nto establish a link between the two worlds. For the two worlds are there in
\nfact − not one above the other: one within the other, in two different
\ndimensions − but there is no communication between the two. They overlap
\neach other without being joined together. In the experience of February third,
\nI saw some of those from here and elsewhere who already belong to the
\nsupramental world in <\/span>one<\/span><\/span> part of their being; but there is no
\nconnection, no junction. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00b9 The Mother commented on this experience in her talk
\nof <\/font> <\/span>19 February 1958<\/span><\/font> (Questions and Answers 1957-58<\/i>, Cent.
\nVol. 9, pp. 271-283).<\/font><\/span>\\<\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 386<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\n The moment has come just now in the history of the
\nuniverse when that link must be established. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>The experience of November fifth was a new
\nstep in the construction of the link between the two worlds. I was indeed
\nprojected into the very origin of the supramental creation: all that warm gold,
\nthat living tremendous power, that sovereign peace. I saw once again that the
\nvalues which govern in this supramental world have nothing to do with our
\nvalues here below, even the values of the wisest, even those values which we
\nconsider most divine at the time we live constantly in the divine Presence. It
\nis altogether different. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Not only in our state of worship and
\nsurrender to the Lord, but even in our state of identification, the quality of
\nthe identification is different depending on whether we are on this side,
\nprogressing in this hemisphere below, or have passed over to the other and
\nemerged into the other world, the other hemisphere, the higher hemisphere. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>The quality or the kind of relation that I
\nhad with the Supreme at that moment was quite different from that which we have
\nhere, and even the identification had a different quality. With regard to the
\nlower movements<\/span> one understands very well that they
\nare different, but that was the summit of our experience here, that
\nidentification by which it is the Supreme who rules and lives. Well! He rules
\nand lives quite differently when we are in this lower hemisphere and when we
\nare in the supramental life. And at that moment\u00b9 what gave intensity to the
\nexperience was that I came to perceive, vaguely, these two states of
\nconsciousness at the same time. It is almost as if the Supreme himself is
\ndifferent, that is to say, the experience we have of him. And yet in both cases
\nthere was contact with the Supreme. Well, probably what differs is what we
\nperceive of him or the way in which we translate it; but the quality of the
\nexperience is different.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\n\u00b9
\n<\/font> <\/span>The experience of
\nNovember 13<\/font>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/font> <\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 387<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

There is in the
\nother hemisphere an intensity<\/span> and a plenitude which
\nexpresses itself through a power different from the one here. How to explain
\nit? You cannot. The quality of the consciousness itself seems to change. It is
\nnot something higher than the summit to which we can rise here,<\/span>
\nit is not one step more: here, we are at the end, at the summit. It is the
\nquality that is different, the quality, in the sense that there is a plenitude<\/span>, a richness, a power. This is a translation, in
\nour manner, but there is something that escapes us − it is truly a new
\nreversal of consciousness. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>When we begin to live the spiritual life,
\na reversal of consciousness takes place which is for us the proof that we have
\nentered the spiritual life; well, another reversal of consciousness occurs when
\none enters the supramental world. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Besides, perhaps each time that a new
\nworld opens up, there will again be a new reversal of this kind. Thus even our
\nspiritual life − which is such a total reversal in relation to ordinary
\nlife − is and appears to be, in relation to the supramental consciousness,
\nthe supramental realisation, something so totally different that the values of
\nthe two are almost opposite. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>One can put it in this way (but this is
\nvery imprecise, more than diminished − deformed): it is as if our entire
\nspiritual life were made of silver whereas the supramental is made of gold, as
\nif the whole spiritual life here below were a vibration of silver, not
\nlustreless, but merely a light, a light that goes up to the summit, a light
\nquite pure, pure and intense; but in the other life, the supramental life,
\nthere is a richness and a power that makes all the difference. This whole
\nspiritual life of our psychic being and our present consciousness, which
\nappears so warm, so full, so wonderful, so sparkling to the ordinary
\nconsciousness, well, all this splendour appears poor in relation to the
\nsplendour of the new world. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>The phenomenon can be very well explained
\nin this way: a series of reversals bringing about, step by step, an ever new
\nrichness of creation so that whatever has preceded it appears <\/span>poor<\/span><\/span> in comparison. <\/span>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 388<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\n What for us, in relation
\nto our ordinary life, is a supreme richness,<\/span> appears a
\npoverty in relation to this new reversal of consciousness. This was my
\nexperience. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Last night when I tried to understand what
\nwas lacking so that I might be able to bring you completely, truly out of your
\ndifficulties, the effort reminded me of what I told you the other day about the
\nPower, the power of transformation, the true power of realisation, the
\nsupramental power. Once you enter there, rise into that state, then you see
\nthat it is truly the All-Power in relation to what we are here. So once more I
\nperceived,<\/span> I felt the two states at the same time. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>But as long as this realisation is not an
\naccomplished fact, it will still be a progression − a progression, an
\nascension: you gain, you gain ground, you climb up and up; as long as it is not
\nthe new reversal, it is as if everything needed to be done over again. It is
\nthe repetition of the experience here below − it is reproduced up there. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>And each time, you have the impression
\nthat you have lived on the surface of things. It is an impression that is
\nrepeated and repeated. At each new conquest you have the impression: \u201cUntil now
\nI had lived only on the surface of things − on the surface of things −
\non the surface of realisation, the surface of surrender, the surface of power −
\nit was merely the surface of things, the surface of experience.\u201d Behind the
\nsurface there is a depth, and it is only when you enter into the depth that you
\ntouch the true thing. And each time it is the same experience: what appeared as
\na depth becomes a surface, a surface with all that it means, something
\ninaccurate, artificial, an artificial transcription, something that gives one
\nthe impression that it is not truly living: it is a copy, an imitation −
\nit is an image, a reflection, not the thing itself. You pass into another zone
\nand you have the impression that you have discovered the Source and the Power,
\nthe Truth of things; and then, this source, this power and this truth become in
\ntheir turn an appearance, an imitation, a transcription in relation to the new realisation.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 389<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>Meanwhile, we must indeed recognise that
\nwe have not got the key yet; it is not within our hands. Or rather we know
\nquite well where it is, and we have only one thing to do: the perfect surrender
\nof which Sri Aurobindo speaks,<\/span> the total self-giving
\nto the Divine Will, whatever happens, even in the midst of the night. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>There is the night and there is the sun,
\nthe night and the sun, again the night, many nights; but one must cling to this
\nwill to surrender, cling to it as in a tempest, and give up everything into the
\nhands of the Supreme Lord, until the day when the Sun will come for ever, the
\ntotal victory.  <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 390<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

<\/a><\/font><\/b><\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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