{"id":4246,"date":"2013-07-13T01:54:32","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:54:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4246"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:54:32","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:54:32","slug":"16-13-november-1957-vol-09-questions-and-answers-volume-09","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/09-questions-and-answers-volume-09\/16-13-november-1957-vol-09-questions-and-answers-volume-09","title":{"rendered":"-16_13 November 1957.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n


\n
\n13
\n November 1957<\/font><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

I have a
\nquestion about the first page where Sri Aurobindo says, \u201cA spiritual evolution,
\nan evolution of consciousness in Matter in a constant developing self-formation
\ntill the form can reveal the indwelling Spirit, is then the key-note, the
\ncentral significant motive of the terrestrial existence.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/font><\/span>The Life Divine, p. 824<\/font><\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n


\n      <\/span>So, from the
\npoint of view of form, in what way is man superior to other animals? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I think this is quite easy to find. <\/span><\/p>\n

Sri Aurobindo speaks of the form that is capable of manifesting
\nthe Spirit. The very nature of the manifestation of the Spirit is
\nconsciousness, understanding and finally mastery. It is obvious that from the
\npoint of view of aesthetics and purely physical appearance, one may find
\ncertain animal forms beautiful and perhaps even more beautiful than the human
\nform in its present state of\u2026degeneration, I believe. There were periods when
\nthe human race seems to have been more beautiful and harmonious; but as a means
\nof expression of the Spirit, its superiority is beyond the shadow of a doubt.
\nFor the mere fact that man stands upright is symbolic of the capacity to look
\nat things from above. He dominates what he sees instead of always having his
\nnose to the ground. Of course, it may be said that birds fly, but with wings it
\nis difficult to have a means of intellectual self- expression! <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>This upright position
\nis very symbolic. If you try to walk on all fours, you will see that this
\nposition with the eyes and nose necessarily turned to the ground does not give
\nyou the feeling that you are looking at things from another plane or even from
\nabove. The whole structure of the human body is made to <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 218<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

express<\/span> <\/span>a mental life. The proportions of the
\nbrain, for instance, the structure of the human ad, the structure of the arms
\nand hands, all that, from the point of view of the expression of the Spirit, is
\nunquestionably altogether superior and it seems to have been conceived and
\nbuilt exclusively for the purpose of] expressing intelligence. <\/span><\/p>\n

Certainly from the point of view of strength, of suppleness, of
\nagility, man is not the most gifted of animals, but for expressing the Spirit
\nno other animal can be compared with him. Everything is made with this in view.
\nWe may wish to add to this possibility other things which seem to have been
\nsacrificed just for the sake of the mental life \u2013 but also precisely because of
\nthis capacity of expressing a mental life man is able to develop in himself
\nfaculties which are only latent. Man has a power to educate: his body can be
\ndeveloped, educated. He can increase certain faculties. You cannot imagine any
\nanimal, even among those we most admire, which is capable, for instance, of
\nphysical education, purely physical \u2013 I am not speaking of going to school or
\nlearning things, but purely physical education, a systematic development of the
\nmuscles. The animal is born and makes good use of what it has and it grows
\naccording to its own law, but it does not educate itself or does it in a very
\nrudimentary way, in an extremely limited field; whereas by a normal and
\nsystematic development man can remedy his defects and shortcomings. Man is
\ncertainly, in an organised way, the first progressive animal who can augment
\nhis capacities, his possibilities, increase his faculties and acquire things
\nthat he did not have spontaneously. There is not one animal which can do that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, under man\u2019s influence some animals have learnt movements they
\ndid not make spontaneously, but that is still under man\u2019s influence. Certainly
\nwithout men dogs or horses would never have learnt to do what they have learnt
\nthrough contact with man. So, it is obvious that the human physical form is the
\nmost appropriate one for expressing the Spirit. It may seem inadequate to us,
\nbut precisely we feel we are capable of drawing
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 219<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

out from our bodies more than they would have given spontaneously
\nwithout an educating will. And with this possibility of expressing
\nintelligence, observation, comprehension, deduction \u2013 all the mental qualities \u2013
\nman has gradually learnt to understand the laws of Nature and tried not only to
\nunderstand them but master them. <\/span><\/p>\n

If we compare what he is with the higher being living in the Truth
\nwhich we want to become, we may obviously speak about man as he is at present
\nin a very derogatory fashion and complain of his imperfection. But if we put
\nourselves in the place of the animals which immediately precede him in the
\nevolution, we see that he is endowed with possibilities and powers which the
\nothers are quite incapable of expressing. The mere fact of having the ambition,
\nthe desire, the will to know the laws of Nature and to master them sufficiently
\nto be able to adapt them to his needs and change them to a certain extent, is
\nsomething impossible, unthinkable for any animal. <\/span><\/p>\n

You may tell me that I don\u2019t usually speak very kindly about man (laughter),<\/i> but that\u2019s because he usually
\nthinks too kindly of himself! <\/span><\/p>\n

If we compare him with the other products of Nature,
\nunquestionably he is at the top of the ladder. <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

But, Mother,
\nthen the question arises: Does the descent of the consciousness develop the
\nform or is it the development of the form that compels the descent of a higher
\nconsciousness? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

There would be no universe without the descent of consciousness.
\nWhere would your universe begin, and with what? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

In the case
\nof man, did the animal man bring down the mind or was it the descent of mind\u2026<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Oh! You mean: Is it something in the intermediary being or in
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 220<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

the higher ape which by its aspiration called down the mind? But
\nthe aspiration itself is the result of a previous descent. <\/span><\/p>\n

It is quite obvious that nothing can be manifested which is not
\npreviously contained in what exists. One can\u2019t bring something out of nothing.
\nOne can make what is there emerge, manifest, express itself, develop; but if
\nnothing had been there, nothing would ever have come out. All progress, all
\nperfection is the result of an inner effort of \u201csomething\u201d that is present and
\nseeks to manifest. That is to say, absolutely, the principle comes first and
\nthe expression afterwards. As we go on reading The Life Divine<\/i>, Sri Aurobindo will prove this to you in every
\npossible way. If there were not an eternal principle, if there were not \u2013 we
\ngive it all the names we like, can\u2019t we? \u2013 a Supreme Reality, there would never
\nhave been a universe, because nothing comes out of nothing. <\/span><\/p>\n

We shall see this as we read on; then you will have to do
\nphilosophical gymnastics. But anyway, even without philosophy and mental
\ngymnastics, it is obvious that to make something, you need to have something to
\nmake it with. <\/span><\/p>\n

There is or was a whole period in the development of the human
\nmind in which men tried very seriously to prove that it was the perfecting of Matter
\nwhich produced the Spirit. But that is nonsense! (Mother laughs).<\/i> The least of your activities, all that you do, is a
\nclear proof that first you conceive and then you do, even on a very small
\nscale. A life which is not the result of a conscious will would be a completely
\nincoherent life. I mean that if Nature were not a conscious force and a
\nconscious will with a conscious aim, nothing could ever have been organised. We
\nhave just to observe a little, even in the very small field of observation we
\nhave in our individual life, to be completely convinced of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

But anyway\u2026It is precisely one of the subjects Sri Aurobindo deals
\nwith in great detail, so we shall speak about it again.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage
\n\u2013 221<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

It could be said that the mastery of fire is the symbolic sign of
\nhuman superiority. Wherever there is man, a fire is lit. <\/span><\/p>\n

The two things that are clearly superior to animal activities are
\nthe faculty of writing and the possibility of articulate speech. And this is
\nsomething so clearly superior that all sufficiently developed animals are
\nextremely sensitive to articulate speech; it fascinates them. If you speak in a
\nvery clear, very modulated, very well articulated way to a wild animal, it is
\nimmediately attracted, truly fascinated \u2013 I am not speaking of those which have
\nlived close to man, but precisely of animals which have never met man before.
\nThey listen immediately, they feel the superior power that is being expressed.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 222<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n


\n
\n27
\n November 1957<\/font><\/a><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/span><\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIt is open
\nalso to doubt whether the evolution is likely to go any farther than it has
\ngone already or whether a supramental evolution, the appearance of a
\nconsummated Truth-Consciousness, a being of Knowledge, is at all probable in
\nthe fundamental Ignorance of the earthly Nature.\u2026<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Admitting
\nthat the creation is a manifestation of the Timeless Eternal in a Time
\nEternity, admitting that there are the seven grades of Consciousness and that
\nthe material Inconscience has been laid down as a basis for the reascent of the
\nSpirit, admitting that rebirth is a fact, a part of the terrestrial order,
\nstill a spiritual evolution of the individual being is not an inevitable
\nconsequence of any of these admissions or even of all of them together. It is
\npossible to take another view of the spiritual significance and the inner
\nprocess of terrestrial existence. If each thing created is a form of the
\nmanifest Divine Existence, each is divine in itself by the spiritual presence
\nwithin it, whatever its appearance, its figure or character in Nature. In each
\nform of manifestation the Divine takes the delight of existence and there is no
\nneed of change or progress within it. Whatever ordered display or hierarchy of
\nactualised possibilities is necessitated by the nature of the Infinite Being,
\nis sufficiently provided for by the numberless variation, the teeming multitude
\nof forms, types of consciousness, natures that we see everywhere around us.
\nThere is no teleological purpose in creation and there cannot be, for all is
\nthere in the Infinite: the Divine has nothing that he needs to gain or that he
\nhas not; if there is creation and manifestation, it is for the delight of
\ncreation, of<\/span> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage
\n\u2013 223<\/span><\/p>\n

\n

manifestation,
\nSnot for any purpose. There is then no reason for an evolutionary movement with
\na culmination to be reached or an aim to be worked out and effectuated or a
\ndrive towards ultimate perfection.\u201d
\n <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/font><\/span>The Life Divine, pp. 826-27
\n<\/font> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

This is an argument Sri Aurobindo is presenting. As he has said,
\nit is one way of looking at the problem and solving it, but that does not mean
\nthat this is his own point of view. And this is exactly what he does throughout
\nthe book, all the time; he presents different arguments, different points of
\nview, different conceptions, and once he has placed all these problems before
\nus, then he comes and gives the solution. And that is why our method of reading
\nhas a drawback, for I read one paragraph to you and if we stop there, it seems
\nas though he had proved his own point of view; and then, if by chance one
\ndoesn\u2019t remember very well and the next time I read another paragraph in which
\nhe expounds another point of view \u2013 sometimes totally different, sometimes even
\nopposite \u2013 and we stop there, the conclusion is: this too is his point of view.
\nSo there is a contradiction. And then if we continue, there are two or three
\ncontradictions! I am telling you this because I have heard people who read in a
\nrather superficial way and perhaps also don\u2019t read continuously enough \u2013 people
\nwho consider themselves extremely intelligent and learned \u2013 who have told me,
\n\u201cBut Sri Aurobindo repeats himself all the time in this book! He tells us the
\nsame thing again in almost every paragraph.\u201d (Mother laughs<\/i>) For he presents all other points of view, then gives
\nhis own, the conclusion; then once again he presents every point of view, gives
\nall the problems, and ends up by proving the truth of what he wants to teach us
\n\u2013 so he \u201crepeats himself\u201d! <\/span><\/p>\n

After all, of course, one has only to read attentively enough to
\navoid falling into this trap. One must be careful, not come to a conclusion in
\nthe middle of a subject, not say to oneself, \u201cAh, look! Sri Aurobindo says it
\nis like that.\u201d He does not say
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 224<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

it is \u201dlike that\u201d, he tells you there are some people who say it
\nis like that. And he shows you the problem as it is presented by many people,
\nand then once again the same problem as presented by other people; and only
\nwhen he has finished explaining to us all the points of view does he give his
\nown conclusion. And what is exceedingly interesting is that his conclusion is
\nalways a synthesis: all the other points of view find their place provided they
\nare properly arranged. This excludes nothing, it combines everything and
\nsynthesises all points of view. <\/span><\/p>\n

But as we have a lesson every three weeks, we have time (laughing<\/i>) to forget all we have read
\nbefore! I don\u2019t know if you can remember the problem that was set?\u2026No?\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Is there or is there not an individual evolution?\u2026There is a
\nuniversal evolution \u2013 Sri Aurobindo has shown this \u2013 but within this universal
\nevolution, is there or is there not an individual evolution?\u2026Now, he has given
\nus one theory \u2013 which holds together perfectly, which is quite logical, you see
\n\u2013 but in which it is not at all necessary to postulate an individual evolution.
\nThe whole universal plan is logical, can be logically proved, without
\nintroducing the necessity of an individual evolution. <\/span><\/p>\n

But if we continue with patience, in a little while he will prove
\nto us why and how this notion of individual evolution must be introduced into
\nthe system of explanation that will be chosen. But what I should like to know
\nis whether this problem has any reality for you or not \u2013 whether it corresponds
\nto something you understand or not. If you have followed that, it is possible
\nto conceive of a progressive, evolving universe, in which the individual is not
\nnecessarily evolving individually\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

I must ask you questions to find out whether you understand first
\nof all the difference between universal and individual evolution, and how both
\ncan proceed. <\/span><\/p>\n

How does Nature proceed in its universal evolution? I think, you
\nhave understood this, haven\u2019t you? <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 225<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

One dies and
\nis born again.\u2026Physically, isn\u2019t it that?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, I am speaking of the outer world, the physical world as we
\nsee it. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

One dies and
\nis born\u2026<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, that is something else. What you say \u2013 dying and being born
\nagain, dying and being reborn \u2013 that is the process of individual evolution,
\nprovided that something of the individual persists through life and death, for
\nif he died entirely and disintegrated entirely, what could be reborn?
\nNecessarily something must persist \u2013 persist through the rebirths \u2013 otherwise
\nit is no longer the same person. If nothing persists, it is not the individual
\nwho progresses, it is Nature. Nature makes use of matter; with this matter she
\nproduces forms \u2013 I am telling you this in an oversimplified way, but still \u2013
\nshe has at her disposal a mass of matter and she makes combinations; she makes
\na form, then this form develops, but it disintegrates, it does not persist as
\nan individual element. Why doesn\u2019t it persist? Because Nature needs matter,
\nsubstance to make other forms. So she unmakes what she has made, then out of
\nthis she makes something else, and she continues in this way, and this could go
\non indefinitely without the individual progressing: the whole] progresses. <\/span><\/p>\n

Supposing you have some plasticine \u2013 you know plasticine for
\nmodelling, don\u2019t you? Good. You make a form, then when you have finished, you
\ndon\u2019t like it, so you break it up and make it into a paste again and try
\nanother form. You have made some progress, you try, you arrange; you say, \u201cThat
\ndidn\u2019t work, I am going to try this\u201d, and your form is a little better but it
\nis still not what you want; so once again you break it, put some water, make a
\npaste and then begin another form. And you can go on indefinitely. It is always
\nthe same substance but not the same being, for each one of your forms has its
\nown particular <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 226<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

existence as a form, and the moment you break it, nothing is left.<\/span><\/p>\n

You may try to perfect the same form or try other forms; you may
\ntry, for instance, to make a dog or a horse, and then if you have not
\nsucceeded, you may begin again and make another horse or dog, but you may also
\nbegin something else. If you build a house and don\u2019t like your house, you
\ndemolish it and build another on another model, but nothing is left of the
\nfirst house except the memory, if you want to keep it. In the same way, Nature
\nbegins with completely unconscious and amorphous matter, then tries one form
\nand another; only, instead of doing as we would, one thing at a time, she makes
\nmillions of them all at once. But it is simply a matter of scale, it is because
\nNature has more means at her disposal, that is all. But that does not
\nnecessarily imply that there is something permanent \u2013 like a principle of life
\nor a principle of consciousness \u2013 which enters into a form and persists when
\nthis form is broken to enter into another. It could simply be as you with your
\nplasticine: you make something, unmake it, make it again, unmake it again,
\nindefinitely, and there is nothing left \u2013 as I said \u2013 except the memory of what
\nwas made before. But if we admit individual evolution, there is something
\npermanent which passes from one form to another and, with each new form, makes
\na new progress and becomes capable of entering into a higher form, more and
\nmore, until this \u201csomething\u201d becomes a perfectly conscious being at the end of
\nthe evolution. Then this being would have a personal evolution which would
\nduplicate \u2013 won\u2019t be independent but simultaneous \u2013 and complement the
\nevolution of Nature or rather make use of the evolution of Nature as a field
\nfor its own individual evolution.\u2026Do you catch it this time? Good! <\/span><\/p>\n

What Sri Aurobindo has presented here is the explanation of a
\nworld which would function quite logically and comprehensibly without any need of
\nan individual being passing from one form into another, without anything
\npermanent which would be free from all destruction, all death, which would
\npersist
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 227<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\n
<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

through all its forms and would itself have a personal, individual
\nprogression parallel to the evolution of Nature.\u2026It is as though in the form
\nyou have made, at the centre there were a little precious stone which you had
\nplaced there and wanted to cover with successive forms. You transfer your
\nlittle precious stone from one form to another \u2013 and the comparison is still
\nincomplete, for the precious stone becomes more and more precious as it passes
\nfrom one object to another \u2013 and it would be as though, by passing from one
\nform to another, it became more and more luminous and pure, and more and more
\nclear-cut in form. <\/span><\/p>\n

There. Do you understand or not? <\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

A little. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

A little. Ah! That\u2019s already something. <\/span><\/p>\n

So, to round it off, do you think there is an individual evolution
\nor not?\u2026Do you have any experience of it?\u2026And how could you have the
\nexperience? That would become interesting. How can individual evolution be
\nexperienced apart from the collective evolution of Nature? <\/span><\/p>\n

Can you give the answer?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Unless one
\nis conscious of the principle that is eternal in oneself, how can one know whether\u2026<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Ah! Good, that\u2019s good. That is all right, but then it amounts to
\nasking you if you are conscious of this eternal principle which is in your
\nbeing! <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

Are you going to look and see if you can find it within you? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Why is it so
\nhidden? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 228<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Perhaps simply because one does not give it enough attention! If
\none took the trouble to open the doors, perhaps one would find it.\u2026It is
\nobviously a gentleman who does not like \u2013 a gentleman or a lady or something,
\nor anything \u2013 which does not like ostentation, does not force itself on your
\nattention at the surface. But perhaps it is waiting for you to go in search of
\nit? Perhaps it is sitting very quietly, at the very back of the house, and you
\nmust open the doors one after another. <\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t find that it is hidden. I find it visible everywhere, all
\nthe time, at every moment, in all things. <\/span><\/p>\n

Shall we look? Shall we go and look?
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

(Meditation)<\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 229<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n


\n
\nHome<\/a><\/font><\/span><\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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