{"id":4441,"date":"2013-07-13T01:56:00","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4441"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:56:00","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:00","slug":"44-15-december-vol-06-questions-and-answers-volume-06","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/06-questions-and-answers-volume-06\/44-15-december-vol-06-questions-and-answers-volume-06","title":{"rendered":"-44_15 December.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n


\n15
\n December 1954<\/font><\/span><\/b>
\n<\/font> <\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

This talk is based
\nupon Sri Aurobindo’s Bases of Yoga, Chapter 3, <\/font> <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIn Difficulty\u201d.
\n<\/font> <\/span><\/p>\n

\n <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

What is the meaning of \u201cthe mental witness\u201d? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The witness we have spoken about several
\ntimes already, only here it is in the mind. <\/span><\/p>\n

There are witnesses everywhere. It is a
\ncapacity of the being to detach itself, to stand back and look at what is
\nhappening, as when one looks at something happening in the street or when one
\nlooks at others playing and does not himself play, one remain seated, looking
\nat the others moving but does not move. That’s how it is. <\/span><\/p>\n

In all the parts of the being there is one
\nside which can do this: put itself at the back, remain quiet and look, without
\nparticipating. This is what is called the witness. One has many witnesses inside
\noneself, and often one is a witness without even being aware of it. And if you
\ndevelop this, it always gives you the possibility of being quiet and not being
\naffected by things. One detaches oneself from them, looks at them as at a
\ndramatic scene, without participating in it. This does not change things very
\nmuch. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, here we have the opportunity of learning many things;
\nhowever, we don’t use this opportunity. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, because it has come to you too easily,
\nall this. One appreciates those things for which one has made a great effort.
\nBut you see, this has come to you in this way because it happen that your
\nparents came here; it is not you who have chosen to come. You were brought and
\nput in this atmosphere…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>some of
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 426<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

you from the time you were very small, and
\nyou see, you are accustomed to this, it seems relatively natural to you because
\nyou have always been here, and you are not even aware of the difference between
\nthe conditions we are in here and those found elsewhere, outside. Perhaps if
\nmost of you were suddenly transplanted into the outer world, you would be
\ncompletely lost. All the ways of life are absolutely different. Now here, you
\nare so much accustomed to things that it seems quite natural to you, and
\ncertainly you don’t draw as much profit as possible from the opportunities you
\nhave. For to profit by things one must appreciate them, you see. But this seems
\ntoo natural for you to appreciate it. That’s how it is. And as human nature is
\nnever constantly satisfied, you can even find many occasions for not being
\ncontent, without even realising that if you were in other circumstances, they
\nwould be much more serious and […]\u00b9 occasions. You do not have any means of
\ncomparing, most of you. It is not that I wish that you have them. I don’t wish
\nsuch a thing to anybody. But still, this is the reason. You ask me why: this is
\nit, this is the reason. It is because all this has come to you too naturally,
\nwithout your thinking about it. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t understand this: \u201cThe disadvantage [of trance or <\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span>samadhi]
\nis that trance becomes indispensable and the problem of the waking
\nconsciousness is not solved; it remain imperfect.\u201d \u201cWaking consciousness is not
\nsolved\u201d? <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And naturally! Because if in order to have
\na meditation or a relation with the inner world, you are obliged to enter into 
\nsamadhi<\/i><\/span>, <\/span> your waking consciousness always remain what it is, without ever
\nchanging. That’s what I said in other words, you see, when I said that people
\nhave a higher consciousness only in very deep meditation. When they come out of
\ntheir meditation they are no better than they were before. All their defects <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\n\u00b9<\/font><\/span> Words missing in transcript.<\/font><\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 427<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

are there which come back as soon as they
\ncome back into their waking consciousness; and they never make any progress
\nbecause they do not establish a relation between their deeper consciousness,
\nthe truth of their being, and their outer being. You see, they take off their
\nouter being as though they were taking off a cloak, and they put it in a
\ncorner: \u201cCome now, don’t trouble me, keep quiet. You are a nuisance.\u201d And then
\nthey enter into contemplation, their meditation, into their deep experience;
\nand then they come back, put on the cloak which of course has not changed \u2013
\nwhich perhaps is dirtier still than before \u2013 and they remain exactly as they
\nwere without any meditation. <\/span><\/p>\n

If you want the outer being to change, it
\nis while remaining conscious of it that you should have the other experiences;
\nand you must not lose contact with your ordinary outer consciousness if you
\nwant it to profit by the experience. There are many people…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>I knew people like that, who used to
\nmeditate for hours, almost all the time…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span>they spent their time meditating, and then if by chance…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>if someone disturbed them in their meditation,
\nif they had to do something, they flew into a rage, a fury, they abused
\neverybody, they became more intolerable than if they had never meditated, than
\nany ordinary person. This happened because they neglected making their outer
\nbeing participate in their deeper life. They cut themselves into two, so there
\nis a portion inside which progresses and a portion outside which becomes worse
\nand worse, because it is completely neglected. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Mother, for self-mastery are not the ascetic methods useful sometimes? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No! You cure nothing. You only give
\nyourself the illusion that you have progressed, but you cure nothing. The proof
\nis that if you stop your ascetic methods, the thing is even stronger than before;
\nit comes back with a vengeance. It depends upon what you call ascetic methods.
\nIf it is not to indulge in satisfying all
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 428<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

your desires, this indeed is not
\nasceticism, it is common see. It is something else. Ascetic methods are things like
\nrepeated fasting, compelling yourself to endure the cold…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>in fact, to torture your body a little. This
\nindeed gives you only a spiritual pride, nothing more. It masters nothing at
\nall. It is infinitely easier. People do it because it is very easy, it is
\nsimple. Just because the pride is quite satisfied and the vanity can get puffed
\nup, it becomes very easy. One makes a great demonstration of his ascetic
\nvirtues, and so considers himself an extremely important personage, and that
\nhelps him to endure many things. <\/span><\/p>\n

It is much more difficult to master one’s
\nimpulses quietly, composedly, and to prevent them from showing themselves \u2013
\nmuch more! \u2013 without taking ascetic measures. It is much more difficult not to
\nbe attached to the things you possess than to possess nothing. This is
\nsomething that has been known for centuries. It requires a much greater quality
\nnot to be attached to the things one possesses than to be without any
\npossessions or to reduce one’s possessions to a strict minimum. It is much more
\ndifficult. It is a much higher degree of moral worth. Simply this attitude:
\nwhen a thing comes to you, to take it, use it; when for one reason or another
\nit goes away, to let it go and not regret it. Not to refuse it when it comes,
\nto know how to adapt yourself and not to regret it when it goes. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Even if defects come? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is not a question of defects, I am
\nspeaking of material things. Defects are not things which come, they are things
\none carries in oneself. I am speaking of material things. I am speaking of
\nasceticism, you understand. <\/span><\/p>\n

Asceticism is an altogether material
\ndiscipline. Defects \u2013 don’t think they come from outside; one has enough of
\nthem inside one without needing to borrow them from elsewhere. And in fact, if
\none did not carry them in oneself, one could not become aware of them in
\nothers. It is because the seed of all this
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 429<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

is in oneself that one is in contact with
\nthem. And when we say that great waves of passion pass through people, and that
\nthey are not generated in them but pass through them, it is perfectly true. But
\nif there was someone absolutely immune from all possibility of passion, they
\ncould pass by for centuries, he wouldn’t even feel them. He could see them, see
\nthem passing, as one sees a storm passing in the sky, but he would feel nothing
\nat all. When the vibrations inside oneself answer the vibrations from outside,
\nit means that they are there; otherwise no vibrations can enter. <\/span><\/p>\n

There are examples like this. For
\ninstance, a crowd is seized by panic. Well, it is always possible that there
\nare one or two persons who resist the panic, who are not touched, are outside
\nit: they can save the situation. This has happened many a time. The reason why
\na movement, a vibrations, a forceful movement is contagious is because the
\nground for contagion is there. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You said that because we are here and have everything, it seems very
\nnatural to us. Why doesn’t effort also come naturally? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is because the physical nature in
\nordinary men is, as Sri Aurobindo writes, rather tamasic. Naturally it does not
\nmake any effort. But the vital makes an effort. Only, it makes the effort
\nusually for its own satisfaction. Yet it is quite capable of making an effort
\nbecause that is in its nature. In fact, I can’t say that you don’t make any effort,
\nyou make a lot of effort for many things, when it pleases you or when you have
\nunderstood that it is necessary for one reason or another. What you mean is to
\nmake a continuous effort for yoga There are even people who have come here for
\nyoga or at least thinking that they came for yoga and who don’t make much
\neffort, who take things easy, as they come. I don’t think that the physical
\nnature, left to itself, is spontaneously pushed into any effort. It needs a
\ncertain amount of activity, but it is very little. You see,
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 430<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

the great thing here is that the principle
\nof education is a principle of freedom, and to put it briefly, the whole life
\nis organised on the maximum possible freedom in movement; that is, the rules, regulations,
\nrestrictions are reduced absolutely to the minimum. If you compare this with
\nthe way in which parents usually educate their children, with a constant \u201cDon’t
\ndo this\u201d, \u201cYou can’t do that\u201d, \u201cDo this\u201d, \u201cGo and do that\u201d, and, you know,
\norders and rules, there is a considerable difference. <\/span><\/p>\n

In schools and colleges everywhere there
\nare infinitely more strict rules than what we have here. So, as one doesn’t
\nimpose on you the absolute condition of making progress, you make it when it
\npleases you, you don’t when it doesn’t, and then you take things as easy as you
\ncan. There are some \u2013 I do not say this absolutely \u2013 there are some who try,
\nbut they try spontaneously. Of course from the spiritual point of view this is
\ninfinitely more valuable. The progress you will make because you feel within
\nyourself the need to make it, because it is an impulsion that pushes you
\nforward spontaneously, and not because it is something imposed on you like a
\nrule \u2013 this progress, from the spiritual point of view, is infinitely greater.
\nAll in you that tries to do things well, tries to do it spontaneously and
\nsincerely; it is something that comes from within you, and not because you have
\nbeen promised rewards if you do well and punishments if you do badly. Our
\nsystem is not based on this. <\/span><\/p>\n

It is possible that at a certain moment
\nsomething comes along to give you the impression that your effort has been
\nappreciated, but the effort was not made in view of that; that is, these
\npromises are not made beforehand nor are they balanced by equivalent
\npunishments. This is not the practice here. Usually things are such, arranged
\nin such a way, that the satisfaction of having done well seems to be the best
\nof rewards and one punishes himself when he does badly, in the see that one
\nfeels miserable and unhappy and ill at ease, and this is indeed the most
\nconcrete punishment he has. And so, all these movements, from the point of view
\nof the inner spiritual growth, have an
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 431<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

infinitely greater value than when they
\nare the result of an outer rule.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You speak of spiritual experience. What is an experience and how can one
\nhave it? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is something which puts you in contact
\nwith a consciousness higher than the one you usually have. You have a certain
\nfeeling about yourself, you are not even aware of it, it is for you your
\nordinary condition, you understand. Well, if suddenly you become conscious
\nwithin of something very different and much higher, then, whatever it may be,
\nthis will be a spiritual experience. You may formulate it with a mental idea,
\nyou may not formulate it; you may explain it to yourself, you may not; it may
\nlast, it may not, it may be instantaneous. But when there is this essential
\ndifference in the consciousness and when, naturally, the quality that comes is
\nvery…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>much higher, clearer, purer
\nthan what one usually has, then one can call this a spiritual experience; this
\nmeans that there are thousands of different things which can be called
\nspiritual experiences. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Should we aspire to have a spiritual experience? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I think it is wiser to aspire to make
\nprogress or to be more conscious or to be better or do better than aspire for a
\nspiritual experience; because that might open the door to more or less
\nimaginary and falsified experiences, to movements of the vital which take on
\nthe appearance of higher things. One may deceive oneself by having an
\naspiration for experiences. In fact, the experience must come spontaneously, as
\nthe result of inner progress, but not for itself or in itself. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

There were some persons in history who were not evolutionary
\nbeings…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 432<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Who were not… ? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

…evolutionary beings…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>who
\ncame…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You knew them, did you? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, someone…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Who? Who told you that? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Our English teacher says this. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(Gestures<\/i>)
\nI can say nothing. I don’t say anything now. If it is a teacher, I don’t say
\nanything any more. (Laughter<\/i>)\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

He spoke about Sri Aurobindo…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span>in reference to Sri Aurobindo…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Don’t ever speak to me about what your
\nteachers tell you, because I won’t contradict them, and I refuse to comment on
\nwhat they say. Teachers are people who should be respected. And besides, for
\nyour information, I can say that you have put the question badly. <\/span><\/p>\n

If you wanted me to answer, you could have
\nput the questions in an absolutely different way. Now I won’t reply. (Laughter)
\nBut if you had said, \u201cAre there beings who…\u201d, I would have quite naturally
\nanswered you. Perhaps not what you wanted to hear, but I would have said
\nsomething. But you asked the questions badly. You made a statement to begin
\nwith, so…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Good. Then, that’s all? <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 433<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n


\n <\/span><\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

15 December 1954   This talk is based upon Sri Aurobindo’s Bases of Yoga, Chapter 3, \u201cIn Difficulty\u201d.   What is the meaning of \u201cthe…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[125],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4441","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-06-questions-and-answers-volume-06","wpcat-125-id"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4441","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4441"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4441\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4441"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4441"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4441"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}