{"id":4447,"date":"2013-07-13T01:56:03","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4447"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:56:03","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:03","slug":"30-18-august-vol-06-questions-and-answers-volume-06","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/06-questions-and-answers-volume-06\/30-18-august-vol-06-questions-and-answers-volume-06","title":{"rendered":"-30_18 August.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n


\n18
\n August 1954<\/font><\/span><\/b>
\n<\/font> <\/span><\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

This talk is based upon Chapter 6 of The Mother by Sri
\nAurobindo. <\/font> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, I didn’t understand this: \u201cThis is the power of
\nMahalakshmi and there is no aspect of the Divine Shakti more attractive to the
\nheart of embodied beings.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That means men. It is another way of
\nsaying human beings upon the earth, beings upon earth. There are also… it
\nmeans animals also. She is very, very loving towards animals and animals love
\nher very much; even the most ferocious ones become very gentle with her, and
\nthat is why instead of using the words \u201chuman beings\u201d, he has used \u201cembodied
\nbeings\u201d, beings with a body upon earth.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

(Silence)<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 Questions? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, I did not understand: \u201cShe throws the spell of the
\nintoxicating sweetness of the Divine….\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Did not understand? Because you don’t have
\na poetic mind, so…\u00a0 <\/span>It is a poetic
\nimage to express…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>You must not
\nunderstand these things with a positivist mind; you must have a little feeling
\nfor the harmony of words and phrases. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cMaheshwari lays down the large lines of the world-forces….\u201d What does
\nthis mean: \u201cthe large lines of the world-forces\u201d? <\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 282<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

It means that she makes the plan of what
\nthe world ought to be. So she lays down the large lines of the plan, of what
\nthe world should be, of the universe. She has a vision of the whole, a global
\ncreation; instead of seeing the details she sees the totality of things, she
\nlays down the large lines of the plan, and what the creation should be like,
\ntowards what it ought to advance, and then what the results will be. She has a
\nuniversal vision, she is less concerned with the details than with the whole. <\/span><\/p>\n

               <\/span>
\n
\n\u201cAll the work of the other Powers lea on her [Mahasaraswati] for its
\ncompleteness….\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Mahasaraswati. Yes, because she is…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>(Silence)\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span>precisely the goddess of perfection. For her everything must be done
\ndown to the last detail, and done in an absolutely perfect way. And she wants,
\nshe insists that it should be done physically, totally, materially, that it
\nshould not remain in the air, you see, like a mental or vital action, but that
\nit should be a physical realisation in all its details, and all the details be
\nperfect, that nothing be neglected. So all that the others undertake in the
\nother domains she concretises and brings to its material perfection. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I have a question from the last lesson. Here Sri Aurobindo has written:
\n\u201cAll the scenes of the earth-play have been like a drama arranged and planned
\nand staged by her [the Mother as the Mahashakti] with the cosmic Gods for her
\nassistants and herself as a veiled actor.\u201d So this means that everything that
\nhappens here has already been staged on a higher plane. So everything is
\npredestined Mother. Then there is no free-will? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is not like that. It is put like that
\nand it is one particular way of seeing things. But in fact, it is…\u00a0 <\/span>it (After
\na silence<\/i>) It could be said with as much exactness, that at each moment the
\nentire
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 283<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

universe is recreated, and both are
\nequally true.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

(Long
\nsilence<\/i>)<\/span><\/p>\n

 If we take the world as it is, like a
\nchemical compound of a certain nature, with all the inevitable consequences
\nresulting from the composition of this body, and if we think that in this
\ncomposition there can enter at any moment a new element, it will necessarily
\nchange the composition of the whole, you understand? Well, it is something like
\nthat, on a greater and more complicated scale; but it is something like that. <\/span><\/p>\n

The universe is a mass of elements which
\nform a certain compound, and in accordance with this compound all things are organised\u00a0 <\/span>as in an internal organisation, you see (Mother makes a movement as of holding a
\nglobe between her hands<\/i>), quite strictly. But this is not a culmination; it
\nis something in the course of construction. And at any moment at all, through a
\ncertain kind of action, one or several new elements may be introduced into the
\nwhole, and immediately <\/i>necessarily,
\nall the internal combination change. Well, the universe is something like that.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

I am speaking of the material universe.
\nThe material universe is a concretisation of a certain aspect, a certain
\nemanation of the Supreme. But this concretisation is progressive and not
\nnecessarily constant, not necessarily regular, but answering to a much more
\nsubtle law of freedom. <\/span><\/p>\n

In this compound new elements penetrate
\nand change the whole organisation. So, this organisation which was in itself
\nperfect and unfolding itself according to its own law, is almost suddenly
\nchanged and all the internal relation become different. So this gives the
\nimpression of something either incoherent or unexpected or of a miracle
\naccording to how one looks at the problem. And this makes for two concomitant
\nthings: a determinism which would be absolute in itself if there were not this
\nfreedom, absolute also, of the unexpected and additional in the universe.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 284<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

I don’t know if you have followed, but I
\nhave tried to express that. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But how is this addition made? <\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

Eh, this addition?…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

This addition of a new element…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span><\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. By the aspiration of the supreme
\nConsciousness.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The aspiration of the supreme Consciousness? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. It is at work in this world and,
\nworking in this world, for the necessity of the work, it works for a certain
\nend, you see, to bring the darkened consciousness back to its normal state of
\ndivine consciousness. And each time in its work it meets with a new obstacle, a
\nnew thing to conquer or transform, it calls to a new Force. (Mother opens her hand.<\/i>) And this new
\nForce is like a new creation. And so, as everything has its correspondence, it
\nmay be said in the same way that each being has in its different domains \u2013 a
\nhuman being \u2013 it has in its different domain a destiny which is, so to speak,
\nabsolute. But it has also the capacity, through aspiration, to enter into
\ncontact with a higher domain and introduce the action of this higher domain in
\nthese more material determinisms. And there it is still the same thing; these
\ntwo things combined: a determinism which we could call \u201chorizontal\u201d (to make it
\nunderstandable) in each domain, which is absolute, and the intervention of
\nother domain or a much higher domain, in that determinism, which changes it
\ncompletely. So, everyone at the same time is a set of determinisms which seem
\nquite absolute, and has a total freedom to bring in the intervention of states
\nof being or states of consciousness or forces of a higher domain; and calling
\nthese forces and bringing them into the external determinisms alters everything
\ncompletely.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 285<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

And it is only thus that things can give
\nthe impression of the unexpected, the unknown and of freedom. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Mother is this what we call \u201cGrace\u201d? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

(After
\na silence<\/i>) From a certain point of view, yes. That is, without the Grace
\nthis could not happen. (Silence)\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>But it
\nis not…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>unless one brings everything
\nback to the Grace. There is certainly a state of consciousness and a vision of
\nthings which make you refer everything back to the Grace and finish by
\ndiscovering that it alone exists, and that it alone does everything. But unless
\none goes to this extreme, before this, one can very well imagine that there is
\nan element of personal aspiration in the being and that the Grace answers.
\nThat’s a way of speaking. The other one also is a way of speaking. The thing is
\nmore subtle than that, more unseizable. It is very difficult to express these
\nthings in words, because, necessarily, it takes on a mental rigidity and there
\nis a whole part of reality which disappears. But if one has the experience, one
\nunderstands very well. The conclusion: one must have the experience. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, what is a \u201cdivine disgust\u201d? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah, my child! (Silence)\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>It is a disgust that is full of a total
\ncompassion. <\/span><\/p>\n

It is something that takes upon itself the
\nbad vibration in order to cure others of it. The consequences…\u00a0 <\/span>(Silence) of a wrong and low movement \u2013 instead
\nof throwing it back with cold justice upon the one who has committed the
\nmistake, it absorbs it, in order to transform it within itself, and diminishes
\nas far as possible the material consequences of the fault committed. I believe
\nthat the old story about Shiva who had a black stain on his neck because he had
\nswallowed all that was bad in the world, is an imaginative way of expressing
\nthis divine disgust. It made a black stain on his neck.
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 286<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Mother, when the Divine takes upon Himself human suffering…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span>
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

            …does this suffering have the same effect upon Him as upon us? That
\nis, does He feel pain and sorrow as we feel them? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No! I can say, No! For, obviously there is
\nan essential difference between a state of ignorance and a state of knowledge.
\nSomething painful happen to you, let us say; and in the ignorance this painful
\nthing takes on a particular quality. But if you receive this painful thing in a
\nstate of knowledge, it does not have the same effect. Let us take even a
\nmaterial thing, say, a very material blow, a good blow like this (gesture). Well,
\nwhen one is in the ordinary human state of ignorance the blow has its full
\neffect. It depends exclusively on its violence, on what has given the blow and
\nwho has received it, you see. But if the same blow is given in the same way and
\nby the same thing to a being who has knowledge instead of ignorance,
\ninstantaneously the reaction of the body will be such as to make the
\nconsequences… reduce the consequences to the minimum. And this is a concrete
\nfact! This can go to the extent of even annulling the consequences altogether
\nsometimes. It can go as far as that; that is, it can abolish the consequences,
\nbecause the reaction is one of knowledge, instead of being a reaction of
\nignorance. So one cannot say that it is the same thing. <\/span><\/p>\n

In moral things this is quite obvious, you
\nsee, because instead of receiving an emotional shock, for instance, with all
\nthe egoistic blindness of ordinary emotion, one objectivises, sees what it is,
\nsees the combination in the vibration; and instantly one throws upon it light,
\nknowledge and truth, and all things are put back in their place. That happens
\ninstantaneously. But I insist that even on the most material body, and in the
\nmost material way,
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 287<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

the effect is not the same. Besides, it is
\nvery simple to understand, for if the effect were the same, it would have no
\nhappy consequence of any kind for the Divine to take upon Himself bad things!
\nBecause they would remain just what they are, and the universe would continue
\nto be what it is. It is because He has the power of transforming these obscure
\nvibrations into vibrations of light that He can take everything upon Himself.
\nOtherwise, not only would this be useless, but it would be impossible, it would
\nbe an absurdity. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It is the material blow one receives…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span><\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

Eh?
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cKnowledge\u201d means what, here? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cKnowledge\u201d means what? If you have
\nknowledge \u2013 the internal knowledge of the cells, of their existence, their
\ncomposition, of the results of the blow, that is, the effect of the blow on the
\ncells, and if at the same time you have the knowledge of what these cells ought
\nto be and how they ought to react to the blow they receive, instead of a
\nprocess like that of physical nature, which takes hours or days or months to
\nmend something that is damaged, you can do it immediately. And, in fact, this
\nis what happens! <\/span><\/p>\n

(After
\na silence<\/i>) It is all a… it is a description of a very tiny part of the
\naction. For when the action is integral and perfect, to this purely material
\nknowledge there is added an internal knowledge, and a power to bring into play
\nforces like the supramental forces, which can do instantaneously what takes in
\nthe material world a fairly long time, you see. There too, when one succeeds in
\nbringing in not only the material knowledge which allows you to put things in
\ntheir place as quickly as possible but also in making a supramental power and
\nknowledge intervene, so that the force of truth can be projected upon the place
\n\u2013 in
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 288<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

such a way that everything is put under
\nthe influence of this force, and that things, elements, the cells and
\neverything, everything constituting them, all become receptive to this
\nsupramental power and the organisation is made according to a law of truth \u2013
\nthen this may be even an opportunity not only of curing the effects of the
\nblow, repairing the damage caused by the accident, but of making great progress
\nin the general consciousness \u2013 and on the particular point also \u2013 a great
\nprogress in the receptivity of forces, in adaptation to these forces, in
\nresponse to their influence. <\/span><\/p>\n

This is how something bad can be turned
\ninto something very good, when one has the power. It is an unlimited power,
\nthis, in the see that if one has made a mistake and done something serious, if
\none has the power to bring this truth-consciousness, this supramental force,
\nand let it act, it is an occasion for a tremendous progress. (Silence<\/i>) Which means that one should
\nnever feel discouraged; or even if one has made mistakes many a time, one must
\nkeep the will not to make them any longer, and be sure that one day or another
\none will triumph over the difficulty if one persists in one’s will. <\/span><\/p>\n

There we are! <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Sweet Mother, why is Mahasaraswati the youngest of the four? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Because her work came last; so she came
\nlast. (Silence) It is in this order that they manifested, in the order given
\nhere. These aspects are like the attributes of the Mother, which manifested in
\nsuccession according to the necessities of the work; and the necessity of
\nperfection was the last, so she is the youngest. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But these four are independent of one another? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

To a certain extent, but not totally. It
\nis always the same thing. There is an independence which at times seems to be
\ntotal, and
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 289<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

at the same time a very close link and
\neven one which is, so to say, absolute. The central consciousness, that is to
\nsay, here in the material world, is the Mahashakti, you know. Well, she always
\nhas the power to control the action of these different aspects \u2013 though they
\nare quite independent and act according to their own aspiration. And yet she
\ncan control them, in the see that if…\u00a0\u00a0
\n<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Take, for example, the instance of Kali.
\nIf Kali decides that she is going to intervene and the Mahashakti, who has
\nnaturally a much more total and general vision of things, sees that the moment
\nfor intervention is not opportune or that it is too soon, well, she can very
\neasily put a pressure upon Mahakali and tell her, \u201cKeep quiet.\u201d And the other
\nis obliged to keep quiet; and yet she acts quite independently. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But why doesn’t she let Mahakali act? For here he says that if Mahakali
\nintervenes what would have taken centuries can take place now. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I say it is for this that Mahakali is
\nthere and does her work. But Mahakali has a particular way of seeing the work;
\nand when one has the total vision, one can see that this, you know…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>She sees only her side of the work, and when
\none sees the whole, one may say, \u201cAh, no, this is not quite the time!\u201d
\n(Silence)\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Ah! I think it is time to stop. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Last time you said that Madame David-Neel did not know how to swallow up
\nher creation and that you taught her the \u201ctrick\u201d of doing it.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

(Pavitra repeating
\naloud) Madame David-Neel did not know how
\nto swallow up her creation…\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah, yes, and so?… You want me to give
\nyou the trick? (Laughter)\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span>First wait
\ntill you know how to make these creation and I shall give you the \u201ctrick\u201d
\nafterwards! (Laughter)\u00a0 <\/span>
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage – 290<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n


\n <\/span><\/p>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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