{"id":4470,"date":"2013-07-13T01:56:14","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4470"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:56:14","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:14","slug":"13-3-june-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/05-questions-and-answers-volume-05\/13-3-june-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","title":{"rendered":"-13_3 June 1953.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n

\n3 June 1953 <\/font> <\/span>\n<\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cFreedom and fatality, liberty and
\ndeterminism are truths that obtain on different levels of consciousness.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Questions and Answers 1929 (28 April)<\/font><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

             <\/span><\/i>
\n
\nWhat are these different levels of
\nconsciousness?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But I have
\nexplained it later on. All that follows is the explanation. <\/span><\/p>\n

I have
\nalready spoken to you of the different planes of consciousness. Well, on the
\nmaterial plane, purely material (when separated from the vital plane), it is an
\nabsolute mechanism where consequently all things are linked together; and as I
\nwas saying the other day, if you want to find the cause of one thing or what is
\nthe result of a thing, you will find another and yet another and you will make
\nan entire tour round the universe. And it is like that, everything is
\nabsolutely mechanised. Only, in this purely material plane, there can intervene
\nthe vital plane, and it already does intervene in the vegetable kingdom. The
\nvital plane has an altogether different determinism, its own particular determinism.
\nBut when you introduce the vital determinism into the determinism of the
\nphysical, that produces a kind of combination that changes everything. And
\nabove the vital plane there is the mental plane. The mental plane also has its
\nown determinism where all things are linked together rigorously. <\/span><\/p>\n

But
\nthat is the movement which could be called \u201chorizontal\u201d. If you take a vertical
\nmovement, the mind descending into the vital and the vital descending into the
\nphysical, you have there three determinisms that intervene and naturally
\nproduce something altogether different. And where the mind has intervened the
\ndeterminism will necessarily be different from the one where it does not
\nintervene; that is, in the higher animal life <\/span>
\n
\n <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 <\/font> <\/span>
\n
\n86<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

there is already
\na mental determinism which intervenes that is altogether different from the
\ndeterminism of the vegetable plane.<\/span><\/p>\n

Above
\nthese planes there are others – above each plane there are others, following
\none another right up to the highest plane. The highest plane is the plane of
\nabsolute freedom. If in your consciousness you are capable of passing through
\nall these planes, so to say in a vertical line, and reaching the highest plane
\nand, by means of this connection, of bringing down this plane of perfect freedom
\ninto the material determinisms, you change everything. And all the
\nintermediaries change everything. Then because of the very changes from level
\nto level, it gives altogether the appearance of complete freedom; for the
\nintervention or descent of one plane into another has unforeseen consequences
\nfor the other plane, the lower plane. The higher plane can foresee, but the
\nlower ones cannot. So, as these consequences are unforeseen, that gives
\naltogether the impression of the unexpected and of freedom. And it is only if
\nyou remain consciously and constantly on the highest level, that is, in the
\nsupreme Consciousness, that there you can see that, at the same time, all is
\nabsolutely determined but also, because of the complexity of the interlinking
\nof these determinisms, all is absolutely free. It is the Plane where there are
\nno more contradictions, where all things are and are in harmony without
\ncontradicting one another. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

In the lower planes can\u2019t one say what
\nwill happen at a particular moment? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That depends.
\nOn certain planes there are consciousnesses that form, that make formations and
\ntry to send them down to earth and manifest them. These are planes where the
\ngreat forces are at play, forces struggling with each other to organise things
\nin one way or another. On these planes all the possibilities are there, all the
\npossibilities that present themselves but have not yet come to a decision as to
\nwhich will come down\u2026 Suppose
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 87<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

a plane
\nfull of the imaginations of people who want certain things to be realised upon
\nearth – they invent a novel, narrate stories, produce all kinds of phenomena;
\nit amuses them very much. It is a plane of form-makers and they are there
\nimagining all kinds of circumstances and events; they play with the forces; they
\nare like the authors of a drama and they prepare everything there and see what
\nis going to happen. All these formations are facing each other; and it is those
\nwhich are the strongest, the most successful or the most persistent or those
\nthat have the advantage of a favourable set of circumstances which dominate.
\nThey meet and out of the conflict yet another thing results: you lose one thing
\nand take up another, you make a new combination; and then all of a sudden, you
\nfind, pluff! it is coming down. Now, if it comes down with a sufficient force,
\nit sets moving the earth atmosphere and things combine; as for instance, when
\nwith your fist you thump the saw-dust, you know surely what happens, don\u2019t you?
\nYou lift your hand, give a formidable blow: all the dust gets organised around
\nyour fist. Well, it is like that. These formations come down into matter with
\nthat force, and everything organises itself automatically, mechanically as
\naround the striking fist. And there\u2019s your wished object about to be realised,
\nsometimes with small deformations because of the resistance, but it will be
\nrealised finally, even as the person narrating the story up above wanted it
\nmore or less to be realised. If then you are for some reason or other in the
\nsecret of the person who has constructed the story and if you follow the way in
\nwhich he creates his path to reach down to the earth and if you see how a blow
\nwith the fist acts on earthly matter, then you are able to tell what is going
\nto happen, because you have seen it in the world above, and as it takes some
\ntime to make the whole journey, you see in advance. And the higher you rise,
\nthe more you foresee in advance what is going to happen. And if you pass far
\nbeyond, go still farther, then everything is possible. <\/span><\/p>\n

It
\nis an unfolding that follows a wide road which is for you <\/span>
\n
\n <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 88<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

unknowable;
\nfor all will be unfolded in the universe, but in what order and in what way?
\nThere are\u00a0 <\/span>8decisions that are taken up
\nthere which escape our ordinary consciousness, and so it is very difficult to
\nforesee. But there also, if you enter consciously and if you can be present up
\nthere.. How shall I explain that to you? All is there, absolute, static,
\neternal: but all that will be unfolded in the material world, naturally more or
\nless one thing after another; for in the static existence all can be there, but
\nin the becoming all becomes in time, that is, one thing after another. Well,
\nwhat path will the unfolding follow? Up there is the domain of absolute freedom
\nWho says that a sufficiently sincere aspiration, a sufficiently intense prayer
\nis not capable of changing the path of the unfolding? <\/span><\/p>\n

This
\nmeans that all is possible. <\/span><\/p>\n

Now,
\none must have a sufficient aspiration and a prayer that\u2019s sufficiently intense.
\nBut that has been given to human nature. It is one of the marvellous gifts of
\ngrace given to human nature; only, one does not know how to make use of it. <\/span><\/p>\n

This
\ncomes to saying that in spite of the most absolute determinisms in the
\nhorizontal line, if one knows how to cross all these horizontal lines and reach
\nthe highest Point of consciousness, one is able to make things change, things
\napparently absolutely determined. So you may call it by any name you like, but
\nit is a kind of combination of an absolute determinism with an absolute
\nfreedom. You may pull yourself out of it in any way you like, but it is like
\nthat. <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\nforgot to say in that book (perhaps I did not forget but just felt that it was
\nuseless to say it) that all these theories are only theories, that is, mental conceptions
\nwhich are merely more or less imaged representations of the reality; but it is
\nnot the reality at all. When you say \u201cdeterminism\u201d and when you say \u201cfreedom\u201d,
\nyou say only words and all that is only a very incomplete, very approximate and
\nvery weak description of what is in reality within you, around you and
\neverywhere; and to be able to begin to understand what the universe is, you
\nmust come out
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage
\n\u2013 89<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

of your
\nmental formulas, otherwise you will never understand anything. <\/span><\/p>\n

To
\ntell the truth, if you live only a moment, just a tiny 89moment, of this
\nabsolutely sincere aspiration or this sufficiently intense prayer, you will
\nknow more things than by meditating for hours. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe Supreme Consciousness.. gives to the
\nindividual in the active life of the world his sense of freedom and
\nindependence and initiative. These things in him are Her pragmatic tools or
\ndevices and it is through this machinery that the movements and issues planned
\nand foreseen elsewhere are realised here.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Questions and Answers 1929 (28 April)<\/font><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

T<\/span><\/i>hese \u201cthings in him\u201d, that is in the individual, are:
\nthe sense of freedom, independence and initiative. You know what independence
\nis? It is precisely the freedom of choice. Independence means the freedom of
\nchoice and initiative means the fact of choosing. First of all, one feels that
\none is free; and then one feels that no one can prevent him from choosing; and
\nfinally one uses his freedom to choose and one decides. These are the three
\nstages. So these three stages: the feeling that you are free, the idea that you
\nare going to use your freedom for choosing and then the choice – these three
\nthings I call the pragmatic tools and devices. <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\nam sorry, my children, all this is said in a form a little too philosophical
\nwhich I do not now approve of very much. I was obliged to speak a language
\nwhich now appears to me a little too complicated. But what is to be done, it
\nwas like that. I was saying that these three things, the feeling of freedom,
\nthe will to choose and the choice made are the devices that Nature uses in us
\nto make us act, otherwise we would not move. <\/span><\/p>\n

If
\nwe did not have this illusion that we are free, this second illusion that we
\ncan use our freedom for choosing and the third <\/span><\/p>\n

\n

\nPage \u2013 90<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

\n
\n\u00a0<\/font><\/span>illusion
\nof choosing, well, we would not move. So Nature gives us these three illusions
\nand makes us move, for she requires us to move. <\/span><\/p>\n

She,
\nwith a capital S, I said it was the Supreme Consciousness, but in fact it is
\nNature and it is the trick of Nature; for the Supreme Consciousness has no
\ntricks, it is Nature that has tricks. The Supreme Consciousness quite simply
\nenters into all things with all her consciousness, because it is the
\nconsciousness: and with that She tries to make all this inconscience move
\ntowards consciousness, simply, without any tricks. She has no need of tricks,
\nShe is everywhere. She is at work everywhere and She puts consciousness into
\nthe inconscience. When you light a lamp in a dark room, as soon as you turn on
\nthe electricity, the room is no longer dark. As soon as you put consciousness
\nin, there is no longer any unconsciousness. So that is what She does. Wherever
\nShe sees unconsciousness, She tries to enter. Sometimes the doors are locked,
\nthen it takes a little more time, but sometimes the doors open, then She rushes
\nin immediately, the unconsciousness disappears and consciousness – comes
\nwithout needing any tricks or any intermediaries. She becomes conscious. But
\nmaterial Nature, physical Nature is not like that, she is full of tricks; she
\nmakes you move all the time, she pulls the puppet strings; for her you are so
\nmany little dolls: she pulls the strings and makes them move. She puts all
\nkinds of illusions in your head so that you may do the things she wants,
\nwithout even your wanting it. She does not require that you should want it: she
\npulls the thread and you do it. <\/span><\/p>\n

That
\nis why we quarrel at times, but that\u2019s something we do not say.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You have said here that we are \u201ctied to
\nthe chain of Karma\u201d, but then sometimes when the Divine Grace acts, that
\ncontradicts.. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Completely,
\nthe Divine Grace completely contradicts Karma; you <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 91<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>know, It makes it melt away like butter that\u2019s
\nput in the sun.<\/span><\/p>\n

That
\nis what I was saying just now. What you have just told me is another way of
\nspeaking. I was putting myself in your place and asking: There you are, if you
\nhave an aspiration that\u2019s sincere enough or a prayer that\u2019s intense enough, you
\ncan bring down in you Something that will change everything, everything – truly
\nit changes everything. An example may be given that is extremely limited, very
\nsmall, but which makes you understand things very well: a stone falls quite
\nmechanically; say, a tile falls; if it gets loose, it will fall, won\u2019t it? But
\nif there comes, for example, a vital or mental determinism from someone who
\npasses by and does not want it to fall and puts his hand out, it will fall on
\nhis hand, but it will not fall on the ground. So he has changed the destiny of
\nthis stone or tile. It is another determinism that has come in, and instead of
\nthe stone falling on the head of someone, it falls upon the hand and it will
\nnot kill anybody. This is an intervention from another plane, from a conscious
\nwill that enters into the more or less unconscious mechanism.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

So
\nthe consequences of Karma are not rigorous?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, not at
\nall. In all religions there are people who have said that, who have given such
\nabsolute rules, but I believe it was in order to substitute themselves for
\nNature and pull the strings. There is always this kind of instinct that wants
\nto take the place of Nature and pull the strings of people. So they are told:
\n\u201cThere is an absolute consequence of all that you do….\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cIt is a concept necessary at a given moment
\nof evolution to prevent people from being in a completely unconscious egoism,
\nin a total unconsciousness of the consequences of what they do. There is no
\nlack of people who are still like that, I believe it is the majority; they
\nfollow their impulses and do not even ask themselves whether what they have
\ndone is going to have any consequences for them and for others. So it is good
\nthat someone tells you straight, <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 92<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

with a
\nsevere look: \u201cTake care, that has consequences which will last for a very long
\ntime!\u201d And then there are others who come and tell you: \u201cYou will pay for it in
\nanother life.\u201d That, however, is one of those fantastic stories But it does not
\nmatter: this also can be for the good of people. There are other religions
\nwhich tell you: \u201cOh! If you commit that sin, you will go to hell for eternity.\u201d
\nYou can imagine!.. So people have such a fright that it stops them a little, it
\ngives them just a moment for reflection before obeying an impulse \u2013 and not
\nalways; sometimes the reflection comes afterwards, a little late.<\/span><\/p>\n

It
\nis not absolute. These are still mental constructions, more or less sincere,
\nwhich cut things into small bits like that, quite neatly cut, and tell you: \u201cDo
\nthis or do that. If it is not this, it will be that.\u201d Oh! what a nuisance is
\nthis kind of life. And so people go mad, they are frightened! \u201cIs it like that
\nor rather this?\u201d And they want it to be neither this nor that, what should they
\ndo? \u2013 They have only to climb to a higher storey. They must be given the key to
\nopen the door. There is a door to the staircase, a key is needed. The key, as I
\ntold you just now, is the sufficiently sincere aspiration or the sufficiently
\nintense prayer. I said \u201cor\u201d, but I do not think it is \u201cor\u201d. There are people
\nwho like one better and others, the other. But in both there is a magical
\npower, you must know how to make use of it. <\/span><\/p>\n

There
\nis something very beautiful in both, I shall speak to you about it one day, I
\nshall tell you what there is in aspiration and what in prayer and why both of
\nthem are beautiful Some dislike prayer; if they entered deep into their heart,
\nthey would find it was pride \u2013 worse than that, vanity. And then there are
\nthose who have no aspiration, they try and they cannot aspire; it is because
\nthey do not have the flame of the will, it is because they do not have the
\nflame of humility. <\/span><\/p>\n

Both
\nare needed. There must be a very great humility and a very great will to change
\none\u2019s Karma. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Voila, au revoir<\/span><\/i>,
\nmy children.<\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\nPage \u2013 93<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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