{"id":4472,"date":"2013-07-13T01:56:15","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:15","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4472"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:56:15","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:15","slug":"35-4-november-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/05-questions-and-answers-volume-05\/35-4-november-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","title":{"rendered":"-35_4 November 1953.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n

 <\/span><\/b>4 November 1953 <\/font><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Before beginning the class Mother spoke
\nfor a few minutes about the \u201csphere with spirals\u201d which the children had
\nconstructed to give an idea of what She had explained the preceding week: <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

.. The
\nsphere is touched only by a part of the curve, the rest is evolved inside. It cannot
\nbe made. This one is opaque. But it was.. there was at the centre of the sphere
\nan intersection of all the spirals. <\/span><\/p>\n

What
\nyou have done there makes it flat, the way it is done. It is flat. As I saw it,
\nthe edge was touched by a section of the curve. Each curve has one part of the
\nedge as section. And the colours were seen distinctly and one could see right
\nthrough I think you could do this geometrically. The whole surface is taken up
\nby one section of the curve of the spiral. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Pavitra:
\nAre these spirals on the surface of the
\nsphere or inside? <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, the
\nspirals are inside. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Hence towards the centre. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

They are
\nintersecting. Their direction is such that the whole sphere is formed by
\nsections of each spiral. <\/span><\/p>\n

Is the
\nwhole of the inside of the sphere filled with spirals? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Is the whole inside of the sphere filled
\nwith\u00a0 <\/span>spirals? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

The whole
\ninside\u00a0 <\/span>was naturally full of spirals,
\nBut as there was no substance (there were only spirals), one could see through.
\nThey were not so joined up as to make an opaque mass. And one could follow: the
\ncolours were brilliant, they were luminous. <\/span>
\n
\n <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 34<\/font><\/span>5<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

One could
\nfollow the line inside. And so it should be inferred that they were countless. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Were they drawing closer inwards forming
\nsmaller and smaller curves? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Not
\nregularly as to have all the first rounds at the centre. It was not a series of
\nspirals beginning with the first circle and working towards the centre. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And beginning again from the centre
\noutwards? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

No, not at all.
\nThe finishing-point was not the same as the starting-point. Still, in this way,
\nseen from far, it gave that impression a little. It was much more complex than
\nthat. And then there were none of those dull things. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Mother, what do the colours represent? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Here you
\nhave three greens and only one blue. That one is blue, but greenish blue. Then
\nthere are two browns, one black and one grey, two reds.. These colours are dead
\ncolours, aren\u2019t they? They can be given a particular meaning. <\/span><\/p>\n

There
\nwas no black. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\nAfter reading the part of the conversation of 4 August
\n1929 on sacrifice and self-giving, the Mother continues: <\/font> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe spiritual life reveals the one
\nessence in all, but reveals too its infinite diversity; it works for diversity
\nin oneness and for perfection in that diversity. Morality lifts up one
\nartificial standard contrary to the variety of life and the freedom of the
\nspirit. Creating something mental, fixed and limited, it asks all to conform to
\nit. All must labour to acquire the same qualities and the same ideal nature.
\nMorality is not divine <\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 346<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

or of the Divine; it is of man and human.
\nMorality takes for its basic element a fixed division into the good and the
\nbad; but this is an arbitrary notion. It takes things that are relative and tries
\nto impose them as absolutes; for this good and this bad differ in differing
\nclimates and times, epochs and countries.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Questions and Answers 1929 (4 August)
\n<\/font> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

In the past, why did men offer human
\nsacrifices in temples?<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t quite
\nunderstand the question. Why should they not do it! There is not much
\ndifference between killing a goat and killing a man. I don\u2019t know. In any case,
\nwhat has come down to posterity and what really happened may be two very
\ndifferent things. When they spoke of sacrifice, it was perhaps only symbolic.
\nCertain religions, we are told, have massacred men by thousands. It is
\npossible, it is the same instinct which makes men destroy things. And these
\nwere certainly religions which tended towards destruction. Now, there are many
\ndifferent cases, and if someone asks why people offered material sacrifices,
\none should first be sure about it. As for me, I am not sure of it. It is
\npossible. It depends on the way one looks at life. And in any case, if one
\narrogates to oneself the right to make use of another man\u2019s existence to offer
\na sacrifice to the Divine, or if one looks at it in a certain way, it is a
\npretty bad attitude. I was saying at the beginning I don\u2019t see why one should
\nmake a difference between any other animal and a human animal. It is a very
\nstrange thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

In
\nthe majority of religions, I believe it used to be as it still is here in the
\ntemple of the headless Kali <\/span>\u00b9<\/span>
\n\u2013 it is an extremely dark and ignorant affair. It comes from a sort of
\nunhealthy fear of a monstrous god who needs either blood or force or no matter
\nwhat in order to be satisfied and not to do harm. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\n\u00b9<\/font><\/span>In whose honour, every year, men wring the
\nnecks of a huge number of chickens.<\/font><\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 347<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

And all
\nthis comes from a dread and a conception of the Divine which is a monstrosity.
\nBut should it be admitted, there would be only one tolerable sacrifice, the
\nsacrifice of oneself. If one wants to sacrifice something to the Divine, I
\ndon\u2019t see by what right one can seek the life of another, be it human being or
\nanimal, to offer it in one\u2019s own stead. If one wants to sacrifice, it is one\u2019s
\nown self one must sacrifice, not others. And as the movement itself is
\nsufficiently ugly and obscure and unconscious, I don\u2019t see why there should be
\nsuch a difference between sacrificing a goat and sacrificing a human being.
\nFrom the goat\u2019s point of view it is an intolerable idea \u2013 if a goat were to be
\nasked why <\/span><\/p>\n

Men
\nhave strange ideas about their own importance in the world and the respective
\nworth of their person. It does not make much difference. If they are told, \u201cYou
\nhave no right to take the life of another\u201d, it is acceptable; but then do not
\noffer sacrifices, or if you want to sacrifice, sacrifice your own self; if you
\nbelieve there is a terrible God who needs to be given blood or whatever else it
\nmay be, vital forces to satisfy him, do it. But by what right are you going to
\ntake the life of others to give it? That is an intolerable tyranny. Even were
\nit only all those chickens one kills! But I believe there is another reason for
\nthat – it is that people can enjoy a good feast! It is simply an opportunity to
\nswallow a considerable amount of food. <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\ndon\u2019t know, for me it does not make a great difference. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Is it possible to feel the divine Presence
\neven when one is surrounded by a bad atmosphere, a mental and vital
\ndisturbance? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Provided
\nthe atmosphere is not within oneself! For if so, it is difficult. And yet! We
\nhave had frequent instances of people who used to lead a more than doubtful
\nlife and who had revelations. There is the instance of a drunkard who, in his
\ndrunkenness, suddenly had a contact with the Divine \u2013 which, moreover,
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 348<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

changed his
\nlife and, I must tell you, prevented him from drinking in future. But still, at
\nthe time he had the revelation of the divine Presence, he was in an intoxicated
\nstate. I don\u2019t think \u2013 here again we fall back into the same things \u2013 I don\u2019t
\nthink the Divine is a moralist. It is man who is a moralist, not the Divine. If
\nit happens that, just then, at that moment, there is a concurrence of events
\nand perhaps an opening in the being, the Divine, who is always present,
\nmanifests himself. On the other hand, for the sage or the saint who is quite
\ninfatuated with his own importance and his own worth, and full of pride and
\nvanity, there is not much chance that the Divine will manifest in him, for
\nthere is no place for the expression of the Divine! There is no place except
\nfor the important personality of the wise man and his moral worth.<\/span><\/p>\n

Naturally,
\nthere is a state in which one may be perfectly pure, perfectly wise, and be in
\ncontact with the Divine! But then, that means that one has reached a certain
\ndegree of perfection and lost the sense of one\u2019s personal importance and
\npersonal worth. I believe that\u2019s most important. The greatest obstacle to the
\ncontact with the Divine is pride and the sense of one\u2019s personal worth, one\u2019s
\npersonal capacities, personal power the -person becomes very big, so big that
\nthere is no place for the Divine. <\/span><\/p>\n

No,
\nthe one truly important thing is the intensity of the aspiration. And this
\nintensity of aspiration comes in all kinds of circumstances. <\/span><\/p>\n

There
\nare two things we must not confuse: certain necessities (which are purely necessities
\nif one wants to succeed in completely controlling physical matter), and then
\nmoral notions. These are two very different things. One may, for instance,
\nrefrain from poisoning one\u2019s body or besotting one\u2019s brains or annulling one\u2019s
\nwill because one wants to become master of one\u2019s physical consciousness and
\ncapable of transforming one\u2019s body. But if one does these things solely because
\none thinks one will gain moral merit by doing so, that will lead you nowhere,
\nto
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 349<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

nothing at
\nall. Because it is not meant for that. One does it for purely practical
\nreasons: for the same reason, for instance, that you are not in the habit of
\ntaking poison, for you know it will poison you. And then, there are some very
\nslow poisons taken by people (they think, with impunity, because the effect is
\nso slow that they cannot discern it easily), but if one wants to succeed in
\nbecoming entirely master of one\u2019s physical activities and capable of putting
\nthe light into the reflexes of one\u2019s body, then one must abstain from these
\nthings \u2013 but not for moral reasons: for altogether practical reasons, from the
\npoint of view of the realisation of the yoga. One must not do this with the
\nidea of gaining merit, or the idea that because you will gain merit God will be
\nvery pleased and come and manifest within you! It is not at all that, not at
\nall! Perhaps even, He feels closer to him who has made mistakes, who is
\nconscious of his faults and has the sense of his weakness, and aspires
\nsincerely to come out of it all \u2013 He feels perhaps closer to him than to one
\nwho has never made a mistake and is satisfied with his external superiority
\nover other human beings. In any case, that does not make a great difference.
\nWhat does make a lot of difference is the sincerity, the spontaneity, the
\nintensity of the aspiration – the need, that need which seizes you and which is
\nso powerful that nothing else in the world counts.<\/span><\/p>\n

As
\nI have said elsewhere about surrender and sacrifice, if one regrets something,
\nthat means that one is not in a spiritual state of consciousness. If one
\nregrets that one can no longer satisfy one\u2019s desires, that means the desires
\nare at least as important as, if not more than, the thing one aspires for. You
\nmay say, \u201cDesires are something of which I am quite conscious, whilst if I give
\nup my desires with the idea of getting the Divine, I am yet not sure that I
\nshall have Him; hence I call this a sacrifice.\u201d But I, I call that bargaining!
\nIt is bargaining with the Divine. One tells Him, \u201cGive and take; I, I give You
\nthe joy I have in satisfying my desires, You must give me in exchange the joy
\nof feeling You within myself, else it is not just.\u201d \u2013 This is not
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 350<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

self-giving,
\nthis is bargaining.<\/span><\/p>\n

This
\nis something I have heard so often, so often: \u201cI have sacrificed so many
\nthings, I have made so much effort, have taken so much trouble, and now see, I
\nhave nothing in exchange.\u201d All that I can answer is, \u201cNo wonder!\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Can a very proud person have a great
\naspiration? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Why not?
\nThe very proud person may receive blows and become sensible; besides, when he
\nreceives a blow, that may awaken him a little! Then he has an aspiration. And
\nif it is someone who has intensity in his nature and some strength, well, then
\nhis aspiration is powerful. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And without receiving blows? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That may
\nhappen. Only in that case it will be very mixed up. In all instances it will be
\nvery mixed but always everything is mixed. A long time is necessary for things
\nto become clear. One may begin anywhere at all, at any stage whatever and in
\nany condition. One can always begin. Only, in some cases it takes a very long
\ntime. For the mixture is such that with every step forward one takes half a
\nstep back. But there is no reason for this. Fundamentally, as it is the true
\nraison d\u2019etre of life and of individual existence to become aware of the
\nDivine, that may emerge anywhere at all, at any moment whatsoever. If there is
\nthe least possibility, it springs up. Naturally, if one is perfectly satisfied,
\nthen that is an obstacle, because one sleeps in self- satisfaction. But that
\ncannot last. In life, in the world as it is at present, an egoistic
\nsatisfaction, a personal satisfaction cannot last, and – as long as it lasts,
\nyes, one may grow hard, not aspire at all. But it does not last. <\/span><\/p>\n

Anything
\nelse? <\/span><\/p>\n

Nobody
\nhas anything to say? <\/span><\/p>\n

Then,
\nau revoir my children, good-night!<\/span> <\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 351<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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