{"id":4480,"date":"2013-07-13T01:56:18","date_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/localhost\/?p=4480"},"modified":"2013-07-13T01:56:18","modified_gmt":"2013-07-13T01:56:18","slug":"37-18-november-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worksofthemotherandsriaurobindo.org\/index.php\/02-works-of-the-mother\/01-cwmce\/05-questions-and-answers-volume-05\/37-18-november-1953-vol-05-questions-and-answers-volume-05","title":{"rendered":"-37_18 November 1953.htm"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n
\n
\n

 <\/span><\/b>18 November 1953 <\/font><\/b> <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIn rebirth it is not the external being,
\nthat which is formed by parents, environment and circumstances, – the mental,
\nthe vital and the physical, – that is born again: it is only the psychic being
\nthat passes from body to body. Logically, then, neither the mental nor the
\nvital being can remember past lives or recognise itself in the character or
\nmode of life of this or that person. The psychic being alone can remember; and
\nit is by becoming conscious of our psychic being that we can have at the same
\ntime exact impressions about our past lives. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

Besides, it is much more important for us
\nto fix our attention upon what we want to become than upon what we have been.\u201d <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

2 April 1935; Words of the Mother, MCW
\nVol. 15, p. 135 <\/font> <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If it is not the mind, vital or physical which
\ntake birth again but only the psychic being, then the vital or mental progress
\nmade before is of no value in another life? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

It happens
\nonly to the extent the progress of these parts has brought them close to the
\npsychic, that is, to the extent the progress lies in putting all the parts of
\nthe being successively under the psychic influence. For all that is under the
\npsychic influence and identified with the psychic continues, and it is that
\nalone which continues. But if the psychic is made the centre of one\u2019s life and
\nconsciousness, and if the whole being is organised around it, the whole being
\npasses under the psychic influence, becomes united with it, and can continue \u2013
\nIf it is necessary for it to continue. Indeed, if the physical body could be given
\nthe same movement \u2013 the same movements of progress and the same
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 359<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

capacity to
\nascend that the psychic being has \u2013 well, it wouldn\u2019t be necessary for it to
\ndecompose. But that indeed is the difficulty.<\/span><\/p>\n

And
\nonly that which is in contact with the psychic lasts, and only what can last
\ncan remember, for the rest disappears, is again dissolved into small pieces and
\nutilised elsewhere \u2013 as the body is dissolved again to dust and used elsewhere.
\nIt goes back to the earth, plants use the soil, men eat the plants. It is in
\nthis way that it goes on. And then it returns to the earth and begins again.
\nThat\u2019s the way Nature progresses. In order to progress she makes a heap of
\nforms, then, when that seems no longer important or necessary to her, she demolishes
\nthem, takes up all the elements again, chemical or other, and reconstitutes
\nsomething else, and so it goes on changing all the time, coming and going. And
\nshe finds that very good, for she sees very far, her work extends over
\ncenturies, and a small human life is nothing, just a breath in eternity. So she
\ntakes up, shapes; she takes a certain time, it\u2019s fun for her, she finds it very
\ngood; and then, when it is no longer so good, she demolishes it \u2013 she takes up,
\nmixes everything, begins another form, makes something else. And so perhaps
\nwith this process which is evidently very slow, finally the whole of matter
\nprogresses. It is possible \u2013 always in this way, intermingling, breaking up,
\nremixing, breaking up again. Essentially, it is as though one made a heap of
\nsmall objects and then destroyed them, remade something from the dust, remade
\nother toys, and again broke them, and remade others out of that. Each time one
\nadds something so that it mixes well. And then, one day, perhaps all that will
\nproduce something. In any case, she is in no hurry. And when we are in a hurry,
\nshe says: \u201cWhy are you in such a haste? It is sure to happen one day. You don\u2019t
\nneed to worry, it will surely come. Wait quietly.\u201d Then we tell her: \u201cBut it is
\nnot I who am waiting!\u201d \u2013 \u201cAh! that\u2019s because you call \u2018I\u2019 that thing which
\ncomes and goes away. If you were to call consciousness \u2013 the one, eternal and
\ndivine consciousness \u2013 If you were to call that \u2018I\u2019, then you would see
\neverything, you would witness everything. Nobody prevents
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 360<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

you from
\ndoing it! It is only because you identify yourself with this (indicating the
\nbody). You have only to stop identifying yourself with that.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n


\n      <\/span>\u201cJustice is the strict logical determinism
\nof the movements of Universal Nature. <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cIllnesses are this determinism applied to
\nthe material body. The medical mind, basing itself upon this ineluctable
\nJustice, strives to bring about the conditions which should lead logically to
\ngood health. <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe moral consciousness acts in the same
\nway in the social body and tapasya in the spiritual domain. <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe Divine Grace alone has the power to
\nintervene and change the course of Universal Justice. <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThe great work of the Avatar is to
\nmanifest the Divine Grace upon earth. To be a disciple of the Avatar is to
\nbecome an instrument of the Divine Grace. The Mother is the great dispensatrix
\n\u2013 through identity \u2013 of the Divine Grace with a perfect knowledge – through
\nidentity – of the absolute mechanism of Universal Justice. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cAnd through her mediation each movement
\nof sincere and confident aspiration towards the Divine calls down in response
\nthe intervention of the Grace. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\u201cWho can stand before You, O Lord, and say
\nin all sincerity: \u2018I have never made a mistake\u2019? How many times in a day we commit
\nfaults against Your work, and always Your Grace comes to efface them! <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWithout the ceaseless intervention of
\nYour Grace, who would not oftentimes have come under the merciless blade of the
\nLaw of Universal Justice? <\/span><\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cEach one here represents an impossibility
\nto be resolved, but as for Your Divine Grace all things are possible. Your work
\nwill be, in the detail as in the ensemble, the accomplishment of all the
\nimpossibilities<\/span><\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 361<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/span>transformed
\ninto divine realisations.\u201d <\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n

15 January 1933; Words of the Mother,1949 Ed.,pp.183-84<\/font><\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

What is the meaning of \u201cJustice is the
\nstrict logical determinism of the movements of Universal Nature\u201d? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

You know
\nthe law of determinism, don\u2019t you? You have not studied philosophy at all?
\n(Turning to a professor) Pavitra, explain what determinism is to them. Try to
\nbe brief and clear. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Pavitra: I think determinism is this: when something
\nhappens, it always has the same effect. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If it is
\nthe same thing \u2013 on condition it is identically the same thing. Are there two identical
\nthings in the universe? No. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Nolini: The same cause produces the same effect. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. The
\nsame cause produces the same effect. That is the principle on which science is
\nfounded. But I have used the word here in a little more general and precise a way
\nat once. I mean that each thing (whether the same or not) always produces an
\neffect and that this effect produces still another and that other produces yet
\nanother and so on \u2013 always a cause produces an effect and each effect becomes
\nthe cause of another effect, and so on, indefinitely. And so justice means that
\neach thing, as Nolini said, the same cause always produces the same effect
\nautomatically. And hence one cannot say a word, make a movement without its
\nbeing the cause of something else. And this something else is the cause of yet
\nanother thing. And all this follows automatically and strictly, and that is
\nuniversal justice. <\/span><\/p>\n

An
\nact carried out has always a consequence and this consequence brings along
\nanother and so on. And this is absolutely ineluctable. That is universal
\njustice. You have a bad thought, it has a result. And that result has yet
\nanother. And you cannot
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 3 62<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

escape it
\nexcept through the intervention of Grace. Grace is exactly something which has the
\npower of changing all that. But only the Grace can change it. It is so strict a
\nlaw and so terrible 362that once one has entered within it, one cannot get out.
\nAnd the moment one is upon earth, one enters into this. The whole earthly
\nexistence is like that, constructed in this way. And each thing one does, each
\nthing one says, each thing one thinks, each thing one feels has a consequence.
\nAnd this consequence brings another, and so on. Now, if one wants to have a
\nmore practical point of view, one may take examples and say: \u201cIf you do this,
\nit will automatically produce that.\u201d For instance, in societies organised by
\nmen, if you commit a crime, you will be punished for your crime. In your own
\nconscience, if you make a mistake, you suffer for the mistake you have made.
\nAnd in the law as man has made it, it is always said that to be ignorant of the
\nlaw is no excuse. If you are ignorant of the law, you are punished. If you make
\na mistake without knowing that it is a mistake, that does not protect you, you
\nare punished. Well, in Nature it is the same thing. If you take poison without
\nknowing that it is poison, it will poison you all the same. Do you
\nunderstand?.. Unless the Grace intervenes. And as the Grace is omnipotent, it
\ncan change everything. That is what I have explained. But without the Grace
\nthere is no hope. For precisely it is ignorance that\u2019s the constant factor of
\nmankind. <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\nwas thinking today how many deplorable and frightful experiences man has had to
\ngo through before knowing how to make use of Nature\u2019s things. It is possible
\nthat there was just this Grace which made him find things instinctively; but if
\nhe had to learn his lesson.. I thought about that because.. there are a certain
\nnumber of fruits on the trees: there are fruits which are good, and then others
\nwhich are poisoned \u2013 this is not written upon the tree. Now, there is always
\nsomeone to tell you: \u201cNo, do not eat this, this will poison you.\u201d But if there
\nwere nobody to tell you that, how would you know? \u2013 By eating it and poisoning
\nyourself. And then it would be somebody else
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 363<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

who would
\nhave the benefit of your experience. <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\nthought of that because some fruits, when ripe, are excellent; they have a
\ngreat nourishing power, they are very useful. But if they are not ripe they poison
\nyou. And it is the same fruit. Take, for instance, the avocado, (butterfruit, I
\nthink), take the butterfruit; if you eat an unripe butterfruit (you won\u2019t eat
\nit because it tastes very bad), but if you eat an unripe butterfruit, it
\npoisons you radically, whilst as soon as it is ripe, it is excellent. Now, in
\nsome countries as in South America or certain parts of Africa, these trees grow
\nas high as the tallest mango trees. And all the fruits hang down in the same
\nway. Somebody who comes along not knowing the tree, not knowing anything and
\nwithout anyone to warn him, takes the fruit, cuts it, eats it and dies. Then
\nsomeone else comes by a month later, all the fruits are ripe; he takes them,
\neats them, finds himself well nourished \u2013 it is excellent, it is wonderful.
\nNow, somebody tells him: \u201cAh! how is it you have eaten that fruit, and the
\nother man is dead….\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cSo how many
\nexperiences are necessary to learn that it is because one ate the unripe fruit
\nand the other the ripe. And when it is not ripe, it is bad and when ripe, good.
\n<\/span><\/p>\n

And
\nwe benefit by all the experiences of those who were upon earth before us. But
\nif we had to come to a country about which we knew nothing, and had to learn
\neverything by ourselves, we would have very unpleasant experiences. There are
\nother fruits like that, this is not the only one, there are many such. For
\nexample, the fig \u2013 the unripe fig \u2013 if you touch the white juice that oozes
\nfrom the fig \u2013 but it\u2019s awful \u2013 you have boils all over the mouth and become
\nquite ill, and you get ulcers in the stomach also. But when the fig is ripe and
\nyou take care not to touch the white juice, it is a perfect food. I could give
\nyou a great many examples of this kind. But now we know this because we have
\nbeen told. Those who told us learnt it from others. But who first made the
\nexperiment, who learnt all that, all the things in Nature?.. There are many,
\nthere are countless things in Nature. Well, take plant life in Nature,
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 364<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

we don\u2019t
\nyet know everything today. For instance, some people tell you: \u201cThe remedy is
\nalways there along with the illness, in Nature; Nature has made it thus.\u201d I
\ndon\u2019t know if this is strictly so, but in any case, in a way it works, it is
\ntrue. It is said, for instance, that if a snake has its hole somewhere, you may
\nbe sure you will find beside it a plant which will cure you if bitten. But
\nwhich plant? There are so many there and who will teach you? There are people
\nwho go up to the mountains in the moonlight and collect herbs which cure
\ndiseases generally considered incurable. How have they learnt that? Who has
\nmade the experiment? <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

And mushrooms?.. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Ah! yes, it
\nis the same thing. You have side by side, just next to one another, a mushroom
\nthat\u2019s an excellent food and another which will send you to the other world
\nimmediately. We benefit by an accumulated knowledge. And I dare say much of
\nthis knowledge must have been lost, for many men have discovered things like
\nthese and never noted them down; and we too, we may make discoveries but don\u2019t
\nalways take care to note them down and make them accessible to others. And
\nNature is an almost infinite field of study and discovery. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Pavitra:
\nThose who discovered explosives \u2013 how
\nmany died and how many had accidents\u2026<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s man,
\nit is his own fault. If he had not meddled with that, it would not have
\nhappened. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Often he may have touched it accidentally,
\nwithout knowing it, without doing it on purpose. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

But it is
\nstill an explosive. It is always the fault of another man, isn\u2019t it? <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 365<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

Those who studied chemistry and alighted
\nupon explosives. <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

If they
\ndidn\u2019t know what it was, yes. For instance, you take some potassium chlorate,
\nquite harmless, white, pretty, crystallised, charming. But then you take a
\nhammer and start hitting it with all your might, and suddenly it explodes. Yes,
\nit is like that. <\/span><\/p>\n

But
\nthe number of plants \u2013 nobody has ever known and nobody will probably ever know
\nthe number of different plants there are upon earth. Yet when a list is made of
\nthe number of plants men know and use, it is ridiculously small. I believe,
\nwhen I was in Japan, the Japanese used to tell me that Europeans eat only three
\nhundred and fifty types of different plants, whilst they use more than six
\nhundred. That makes a considerable difference. They used to say: \u201cOh, how you
\nwaste your food! Nature produces infinitely more than you know; you waste all
\nthat.\u201d Have you ever eaten (not here, but in Europe) bamboo sprouts?.. You have
\neaten bamboo sprouts? You have eaten palm-tree buds? \u2013 Coconut buds? That,
\nindeed, makes a marvellous salad, coconut buds. Only, this kills the tree. For
\na salad, one kills a tree. But when there is a cyclone, for instance, which
\nknocks down hundreds of coconut trees, the only way of utilising the
\ncatastrophe is to eat all the buds and make yourself a magnificent dish.
\nHaven\u2019t you ever eaten coconut buds? As for me, I was not surprised, for I had
\neaten bamboo sprouts before they sprang up from the ground \u2013 somewhat like the
\nasparagus. It is quite a classical dish in Japan. And their bamboos are much
\nmore tender than the bamboos here. Their bamboos are very tender and their
\nsprouts are wonderful. <\/span><\/p>\n

Still,
\nthat\u2019s how it is. It seems in Europe one knows how to use only three hundred
\nand fifty varieties of vegetables from the vegetable kingdom, whilst in Japan
\nthey use six hundred of them and more. But perhaps if people knew, they would
\nnot die of hunger, at least those who live in the countryside.<\/span><\/p>\n

In
\nany case, things are like that. We don\u2019t know how it
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 36<\/font><\/span>6<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

would be if
\nit were only justice reigning over the world. But I believe it wouldn\u2019t be fun!
\nFor, as I have said, there is not a single person who can stand before the Lord
\nand tell him: \u201cI have never made a mistake.\u201d And when I speak of making a
\nmistake, ignorance is not an excuse; for whether you touch the fire through
\nignorance or knowing it, the difference is rather in favour of the stupidity of
\ntouching it when one knows, for one can take precautions. But when one touches
\nthe fire through ignorance, without knowing, one burns oneself completely. And
\nthen one can\u2019t tell Nature: \u201cOh! I should not have been burnt, for I did not
\nknow that it burnt.\u201d It burns, nobody will listen to you! <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Does the intervention of the Grace come
\nthrough a call? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

When one calls?
\nI think so. Anyway, not exclusively and solely. But certainly, yes, if one has
\nfaith in the Grace and an aspiration and if one does what a little child would
\nwhen it runs to its mother and says: \u201cMamma, give me this\u201d, if one calls with
\nthat simplicity, if one turns to the Grace and says \u201cGive me this\u201d, I believe
\nit listens. Unless one asks for something that is not good for one, then it
\ndoes not listen. If one asks from it something that does harm or is not
\nfavourable, it does not listen. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

What is the cause of this effect? of the
\ncall? <\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

 <\/span><\/p>\n

Perhaps one
\nwas destined to call. That is: Did the hen produce the egg or the egg the hen?
\nI don\u2019t know whether it is the Grace which makes you call the Grace or whether
\nbecause the Grace is called the Grace comes. It is difficult to say. <\/span><\/p>\n

Essentially,
\nit is quite possible that what is most lacking is faith. There is always a tiny
\ncorner in the thought which doubts and debates. So that spoils everything. It
\nis only just when one is in an absolutely critical situation, when the mind
\nrealises that
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 367<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

it can do
\nnothing, absolutely nothing, when it stands there quite stupid and incapable,
\nthen, at that moment, if one aspires for a higher help, the aspiration has
\nexactly that kind of intensity which comes from despair, and that takes effect.
\nBut if your thought continues to argue, if it says: \u201cYes, yes, I have aspired,
\nI have prayed, but God knows if this is the moment, and whether it will come
\nand whether it is possible\u201d, well, then it is finished, it doesn\u2019t work. This
\nis one of the commonest of things. People are told: \u201cIf you want to advance in
\nthe yoga, you must have no desires\u201d. One goes even a little further and says:
\n\u201cYou must not have any needs.\u201d One goes a little further still and says: \u201cNever
\nask anything from the Divine.\u201d Well, I don\u2019t know, more than ninety-nine times
\nout of a hundred, people\u2019s reaction is: \u201cAh! if I don\u2019t ask, I won\u2019t have what
\nI need.\u201d They don\u2019t see that they cut the whole movement at the very root! They
\ndon\u2019t have faith. \u201cI need this….\u00a0 <\/span>\u201c <\/span><\/p>\n

I
\nam not even discussing the idea of need, for it is quite arbitrary. I knew a
\nDutch painter who had come here, and done Sri Aurobindo\u2019s portrait (it seems
\nthis portrait is still existent). This Dutch painter was practising a yoga. And
\nso, one day, he told me this: \u201cOh! as for me, I think I can do without
\nanything. Truly I believe one can reduce one\u2019s needs to a minimum. But all the
\nsame, I must have a tooth-brush.\u201d I had not yet lived in India at that time,
\notherwise I would have told him: \u201cThere are millions of people who have never
\nhad a toothbrush and whose teeth are quite clean. This is not the only way of
\nkeeping one\u2019s teeth clean.\u201d But at that time he was quite convinced that one
\ncould do without everything except keeping one\u2019s mouth clean. And for him, to
\nkeep one\u2019s mouth clean meant having a tooth-brush. That gives a very exact
\npicture of what goes on in people\u2019s minds. They cling to something and think
\nthey need it. And surely it is a complete ignorance, for perhaps there is a
\nreal necessity like that of having a clean mouth (that seems to be in any case
\nquite necessary), but that association of the tooth-brush with the necessity of
\nhaving a clean mouth is
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 368<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
\n

<\/span><\/div>\n

quite
\narbitrary. For it is not so very long ago that tooth-brushes were invented. <\/span><\/p>\n

There
\nwas someone else also who told me: \u201cOh! I can absolutely do without anything at
\nall\u201d – we were speaking of a walking-tour with a minimum of baggage on the back
\n(when you are compelled to carry it for miles on end, four or five kilometres a
\nday, you try to reduce the weight of your bag as much as possible); so we
\ndiscussed about what was indispensable and had to be put in the bag. He said
\nhis tooth-brush. Another told me he needed a piece of soap (usually this spins
\nround very simple tiny things of this kind). But here how many people there are
\nwho have never used soap, and that doesn\u2019t prevent them from being clean! There
\nare other ways of being clean. That\u2019s how it is, one is fixed in all kinds of
\nsmall ideas and believes these are indispensable needs. And then, if you travel
\na little around the world, you notice that what is a need for you is for others
\nsomething they don\u2019t even know of, something they have never seen in their
\nlife, which doesn\u2019t exist and hasn\u2019t the slightest importance of any kind.
\nHence it is not indispensable. It is just the result of an education and life
\nin a particular environment. And these things are quite relative, and not only
\nrelative but transitory. <\/span><\/p>\n

Voila. <\/span><\/i>
\n
\n <\/span><\/p>\n

\nPage \u2013 369<\/font><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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