20 May 1970

 

Are we following your experience even a little? What should we do to be a little more in the movement?

 

Some are beginning to have experiences; some have the experiences but do not know! (Mother laughs) It has some effect.

The greatest difficulty, as always, is the mind, because it wants to understand in its own way. That is the difficulty... There are some who would go much more quickly if they did not have that. They have the feeling that if they do not understand mentally they have not understood.

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27 June 1970

 

Since long you have not spoken...  

(Silence)

 

To express, there must be a minimum of mentalisation, and that is very difficult because it is the body that is busy having all kinds of experiences and is learning, but as soon as it tries to express itself, it says, “No, it is not true, it is not so.”... (Mother draws small narrow squares) It is like drawing geometrical designs with life. That is its impression.

Even otherwise, it is inexpressible, because it is multiple, complex, and if you do not lay it out in an explanation... it cannot even be said. And as you lay it out in an explanation, at that very moment it is no more true.

All these days, it is this experience of the consciousness that just a little displacement (how to say it?), just a little change of attitude, which cannot even be expressed, and in one case one is in divine bliss, and, things remaining the same, it becomes almost a torture ! And it is constantly so. Well, there are moments when the body would scream in pain and... and just a little, just a little change, which is almost inexpressible, and the thing becomes bliss – it becomes... the other thing, it becomes this extraordinary thing, the Divine everywhere. And so the body all the while is moving from the one to the other, like a kind of gymnastic, a struggle of the consciousness between the two.

 And it becomes extremely acute; sometimes there are seconds when the body says, “Ah! I have had enough of it, enough” and pfft ! (Mother makes a gesture of reversal.) Then, it is impossible to say. Whatever is said is no more truly true.

And all the suffering vibrations are, as it were, sustained by the mass of the general human consciousness – yes, it is that.

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  And the other is sustained by... something that does not seem to intervene, it seems to be like that (gesture meaning immutable) in comparison with this human mass trying to express itself.... So it is impossible to say all that.

And constantly, constantly there is either this immutable Peace – this superlative Peace, which is greater than any peace that one can feel – and at the same time, one knows (it cannot be said “one feels'', but one knows) that so great is the rapidity of the movement of transformation that it cannot be perceived materially. And the two are conjoined and this body passes from one to the other, and sometimes... sometimes the two are almost together (Mother shakes her head, indicating that it is impossible to express herself).

 And then, it gives to the vision of ordinary things, that is to say, of life as it is, the perception –from the point of view, not divine, but as compared with the Divine – of a general madness, and no difference is truly perceptible between what men call “insane” and what they call “reasonable”.... Yes, it is... it is comic, this difference that men make. One would like to tell them: “But you are all alike, in different degrees !”... So...

And all that is a world of simultaneous perceptions; so truly it is impossible to speak.

That, there is nothing there (Mother touches her head), nothing passes that way, nothing is there. It is something... something that has no precise form but has innumerable experiences at the same time, with a capacity for expression that has remained what it is, that is to say, incapable.

 

(Silence)

 

For example, there is, at the same time, for whatever happens, the explanation (“explanation” is not the right word, but after all...), the explanation of the ordinary human consciousness (“ordinary”, I do not mean commonplace, I mean human consciousness), the explanation such as Sri Aurobindo gives

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through an illumined mind, and... the divine perception. All the three simultaneously for the same thing – how, how to describe this?

And it is constant, all the while in this way. And then that (Mother points to her body), it is not in a condition to express itself, it is not the time for expression.

It is so to such a degree that even when I write, it is like that. So I try to put whatever can be contained into our stupid formulas – and I put in so much! so much! which cannot be expressed through words – and then when they read out to me what I have written, I am tempted to say, “You are joking with me, you have taken everything out of it !''

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1 July 1970

 

I had an experience which was for me interesting, because it was for the first time. It was yesterday or the day before, I do not remember. X was there just in front of me, and I saw her psychic being, dominating over her by so much (gesture indicating about twenty centimetres), taller. It was the first time. Her physical being was small and her psychic being was so much bigger. And it was an unsexed being, neither man nor woman. Then I said to myself (possibly it is always so, I do not know, but here I noticed it very clearly), I said to myself, “But it is the psychic being, it is that which will materialise itself and become the supramental being!”

I saw it, it was so. There were particularities, but these were not well-marked, and it was clearly a being that was neither man nor woman, having the combined characteristics of both. And it was bigger than the person and in every way overtopped her by about so much (gesture surpassing the physical body by about twenty centimetres); she was there and it was like this (same gesture). And it had this colour... this colour... which if it became quite material would be the colour of Auroville.¹ It was fainter, as though behind a veil, it was not absolutely precise, but it was that colour. There was hair on the head, but... it was somewhat different. I shall see better perhaps another time. But it interested me very much, because it was as though that being were telling me, “But you are busy looking to see what kind of being the supramental will be  there it is ! There, it is that.” And it was there. It was the psychic being of the person.

So, one understands. One understands: the psychic being materialises itself... and that gives continuity to evolution. This creation gives altogether the feeling that there is nothing arbitrary, there is a kind of divine logic behind and it is not like our human logic, it is very much superior to ours – but there

 

¹ Orange.

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is one, and that was fully satisfied when I saw this.

It is really interesting. I was very interested. It was there, calm and quiet, and it said to me, “You were looking, well, there it is, yes, it is that!”

And then I understood why the mind and the vital were sent out of this body, leaving the psychic – naturally it was that which had been always governing all the movements, so it was nothing new, but there are no difficulties any more: all the complications that were coming from the vital and the mental, adding their impressions and tendencies, all gone. And I understood: “Ah! It is that, it is this psychic being which has to become the supramental being.”

But I never sought to know what its appearance was like. And when I saw X, I understood. And I see it, I am seeing it still, I have kept the memory. It was as though the hair on the head was red (but it was not like that). And its expression! An expression so fine, and sweetly ironical... oh! extraordinary, extraordinary.

And you understand, I had my eyes open, it was almost a material vision.

So one understands. All of a sudden all the questions have vanished, it has become very clear, very simple.

 

(Silence)

 

And it is precisely the psychic that survives. So, if it materialises itself, it means the abolition of death. But “abolition”... nothing is abolished except what is not in accordance with the Truth, which goes away... whatever is not capable of transforming itself in the image of the psychic and becoming an integral part of the psychic.

It is truly interesting.

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5 August 1970

 

This Consciousness that came more than a year ago, a year and a half now, seems to be working very very hard, very positively, for sincerity. It does not allow “pretence'', that one should pretend to be that and not be that. He¹  wants that the thing should be the true thing.

 

Yes, everything comes up.

 

It is an excellent mentor for this body, it is giving it lessons continually.... I do not know if all bodies are like that, but this one feels just like a little child and it wants to go to school, it wants to be shown where it is making a mistake and to learn everything. And it is learning constantly. But whatever comes from outside... This is very interesting: the Consciousness, the Consciousness there (gesture upward) is influenced by nothing: it is the witness, it sees, but does not receive; the body still receives vibrations: when certain people come and sit before me, all of a sudden there are pains, things do not go well, but the body knows now (naturally it knows that it is suffering), but it does not blame others, it blames itself; it takes that as indicating the points that are still not solely under the divine influence. And from this point of view the thing is very interesting.... It knows the distance there is between the consciousness of the being which uses it and itself, and it does not suffer for that but is full of a perfect humility, a perfect modesty. And it is not surprised, it is not anxious, because it is: “Let Thy will be done; it is not my affair, I am not capable of judging and I do not try – let – Thy will be done.” So, the body is like that (gesture, passive and abandoned). And when it disappears, when it is wholly, wholly surrendered, does no more exist by itself,

 

¹ In this instance Mother has used “He” in order to designate this Consciousness.

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 then the Force passing through it becomes... sometimes formidable. Sometimes one can see, the witness consciousness can see that there should truly be no limit to the possibilities. But it is not yet that, it is far from that.... It comes as an example of what can be. But... before it becomes spontaneous and natural...

 

    (Long silence)  

Do you have anything to say?

 

I do not know if it is correct, but I have the feeling that there is a certain difference between what was a few years ago and what is now, in your presence with us, if I may say so. For example, formerly I often had the feeling that you were actively with us, or you were actively busy with us; now, I do not know if it is exact but I have rather the feeling that it is left to a force... not impersonal but...

 

Ah ! It is true that much of the activity I have left to this Consciousness. This is true. I let this Consciousness work actively, because... I found that truly it knows. Otherwise, the feeling of nearness with you is much stronger than before – very much stronger. I have almost the feeling that I am moving within you, which I did not have before. But perhaps, before, my consciousness used to put a pressure upon yours; now it must not be doing that any more, because... it is as though I was doing it from within.

 

Yes, when one is with you, near you, this is evident, one feels it. Yes, one feels that you are within.

 

Yes, it is that.

 

It is quite that, but it is rather when one is physically  away that one feels that one is more with something impersonal. I do not know if it is exact.  

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It may have become impersonal. I have the feeling that even the consciousness of the body has a minimum of the personal in it. At times I no longer have the feeling of the limits of my body.... I do not know how to say it.... Yes, it is that, it is almost as though it had become fluid. And there should no longer be any personal action. But precisely, inside (I do not know how to explain), it is not even something like a person who has become so big as to take others within herself, it is not that: it is a force, a consciousness which is spread over everything. I do not feel any limit, I feel it is a thing spread out, even physically.... It is because of this that if someone comes with a very active critical sense, wanting to observe and judge, it is as though he enters within, you understand, and that upsets one inside.

I do not think the action gives the feeling of a personal action – since long it has been so (that is to say, since the beginning of the year at least). When people write to me saying that they felt I had done this or that for them, I am always taken by surprise. If they said, “The Force has done that” or “The Consciousness has done that”, that would appear to me more natural.

What speaks, what observes is a centre of consciousness that is there (gesture up above), but naturally not localised: for communicating through the mouth and the senses, it is there (same gesture). But that has not the character of a personality.... Well, when I am asked the question, “How do you see that?'' it takes me a moment to understand the question. I do not feel that it is a person who sees.

Some experiences make me think that this sense of personal limitation is not necessary for physical existence; it is a thing that has to be learnt, but it is not necessary. It was always felt that a defined body was necessary to form separate individualities –

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 it is not necessary. One can live physically without that, the body can live without that.... Spontaneously, that is to say, left to its old habits and ways of being, it is difficult; it produces an inner organisation that looks very much like disorder – it is difficult. Well, the problems come up all the while, for everything – everything – there is not a single activity of the body which does not face the question raised by this.¹ The process is no longer the old one, it is no more what it was; but as it is, it has not become a habit, a spontaneous habit; that is to say, it is not natural, it requires the consciousness to be always on the watch – for everything, even for swallowing food. And that makes life a little difficult particularly, yes, particularly when I am seeing people. I see a huge number of people (forty, fifty people every day) and each one brings something which necessitates that this Consciousness that works out all this has to adapt itself to the things coming from outside.... And I see, many people fall ill (or think they are ill or seem to get ill or are really so), but it becomes concrete in the body through their way of being, which is the old way; for this new physical consciousness, it can be avoided, but, oh! it means such a difficulty. One must maintain, through a sort of conscious concentration, a condition, a way of being which is not natural according to the old nature, but which is evidently the new way of being. But in that way, illness can be avoided. But it is almost a Herculean task.

It is difficult.

You understand, all the impossibilities, all the “that cannot be, that cannot be done”, all that has been swept away; but it is swept away in principle, and it is busy trying to become a fact, a concrete fact.

This is quite recent, that is, after the beginning of this year. And then, there is all the old habit – one might say, ninety years of habit. But the body knows, it knows that it is only a habit.

 

¹ This absence of personal limits.

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